experimental rules in MBT

Grumbler · 01-10-2007, 09:25 AM,

And how many do? 10%?

Vesku · 01-10-2007, 04:17 PM,

Grumbler Wrote:And how many do? 10%?

I would be a happy man :) but not that many use CC.

shortreengage · 01-11-2007, 02:04 AM,

The CC I like. It's the game that I dislike. It was a Great engine for SP3 and I loved the original version, but I'm not a WW2 guy. I remember trying to use a mixed force of Syrians,Jordanians and Iraqis in SP3. With CC on the Jordies had no problems, the Syrians some, and the Iraqis were just plain 8UP. I would like to see CC in MBT but most would not use it. My main complaint with WAW's CC function is that you can't cross attach Platoons like in MBT. It cost me the game in a old tournament. That said, it is still the best way to control many of the Arty abuses in the game.

The 70% soldier..... Weasel and I tried that once but it was inconclusive.
it seemed that they just ran away faster, not died faster. I think increasing the effects of ARTY would be a better solution. Arty is absolutly lethal to unprotected troops. The #1 killer in WW2. I agree that infantry is way too resilient at present.

Artillery is NOT too powerful. It is NOT powerful ENOUGH!

Vesku · 01-11-2007, 03:47 AM,

shortreengage Wrote:Artillery is NOT too powerful. It is NOT powerful ENOUGH!

I think arty is too powerful. I know you are going to argue that it is the number one killer but in the numbers it is used in the game it is scoring way too many kills. Hitting the target in real life does not mean 60 shells in 10 minutes into a large area, it means 36 shells per minute per target (100m times 200m), for a MBT turn it means 72 155mm shells. That is a regular Finnish arty strike from one battery when we are trying to hurt the enemy (in such case more than one battery would fire at the target). How often you see such firing in MBT? The bombardments in SP are usually very very light and should not cause much damage unless the target is soft and moving when hit.

Narwan · 01-11-2007, 04:15 AM,

Hmm, is that normal rounds or cluster ammo you're talking about? Because I'm somewhat leaning towards the 'not powerful enough' side of the debate here (although I can live with the current situation).
I rarely see non-cluster ammo take out vehicles other than unarmored ones. And in a current game I did splatter an enemy infantry platoon with apc's with about 5 batteries of arty (155mm, 203mm and 4.2inch sp-mrts) for several turns inflicting few casualties (but a lot of supression which also works).
I'm not seeing these big hits by arty. Nor powerful crews btw.

Narwan

Weasel · 01-11-2007, 04:35 AM,

shortreengage Wrote:The 70% soldier..... Weasel and I tried that once but it was inconclusive.
it seemed that they just ran away faster, not died faster. I think increasing the effects of ARTY would be a better solution. Arty is absolutly lethal to unprotected troops. The #1 killer in WW2. I agree that infantry is way too resilient at present.

Artillery is NOT too powerful. It is NOT powerful ENOUGH!

We are trying to solve the UBER SQUAD that has three men killed in the first burst, takes six tank rounds and numerous small arms fire, yet still turns around and wipes out the squad or vehicle that moves in for the kill in the same turn. What a load of crap that is!! If it were a rare occurence then ok, but this happens every turn!! And crews are the worst offenders.

retired from gaming · 01-11-2007, 04:35 AM,

I am satisfied with the way arty works now. Have to fully agree with Narwan's post.
OTOH it is probably the question of big guns being too easily available even in small battles. What I really miss in CAMO engine is the RARITY.
This option made some of my H2H games a real killer.

Montana_Prussian · 01-11-2007, 04:48 AM,

For the most part I'm satisfied with the ARTY in both MBT and WW2,but I would not be upset if it were a little more powerful,which,IMHO,it should be.

I do like the FOO rule Weasel is experimenting with,but 0 units should be able call in attached mortars and not need a FOO to do so.

Thexder · 01-11-2007, 06:16 AM,

Montana_Prussian Wrote:For the most part I'm satisfied with the ARTY in both MBT and WW2,but I would not be upset if it were a little more powerful,which,IMHO,it should be.

I do like the FOO rule Weasel is experimenting with,but 0 units should be able call in attached mortars and not need a FOO to do so.

I agree with you with the attached mortars-thing. In fact I play using rules that allow that. But it would be difficult to monitor by the enemy. Using W&V arty rules, they can tell the number of FOs before the battle making the enforcement easy.

What I would like to see in MBT/WWII is some kind of tool (like effectiveness in arty, infantry etc.) for the cost of different branches. I would definitely raise the cost of arty by 30% or so because it's too cheap compared to its effectiveness.