Patton's Assorted Manure Piles?

Legion · 03-01-2007, 11:30 PM,

Patton's quotes were better than his generalship. That thing he said about the Lorraine country, "this nasty country where it rains every day and the whole wealth of the people consists in assorted manure piles"... That's classic.
I hope none of my gaming brothers are offended by this, but Patton was little above average. He's considered "great" because his American fellows were...not. It pains me, as an American, to say this. We Americans can only take solace that we are not war-folk, not killers, and don't typically produce men with a genius for war.

I'm really sorry if I've stepped on any toes here,

Legion

McIvan · (This post was last modified: 03-02-2007, 12:57 PM by McIvan.)

03-02-2007, 06:53 AM,

Our great leader, Winston Churchill - one of the best remarks reported was in Parliament.
(He was known for his drinking but also had a speech problem)
After a speech, a woman MP stood up and said, ' sir, the right honourable gentleman is drunk!'
To which Winnie replied, ' Madam, I maybe drunk, but in the morning, I will be sober! You are extremely ugly and, in the morning, will still be ugly!'

Glint

McIvan · 03-02-2007, 08:04 AM,

I heard it along the lines of "Madam, I may be drunk, but you're ugly. And in the morning, I will be sober...".

Great line :)

Mr. Guberman · 03-02-2007, 09:56 AM,

...er...the Germans also recommended Hitler...

...I see German recommendation as no attribute in this context...

Patton was controversial...at best...for every atribute there can be considered a defect... ...and ...actually Patton ranks very marginal (if not low) in any kind of rating scheme that can be considered...

"...one baseball player said...if I'm going to be good, I have to be lucky...Rico Carty replied...I'm only good because I am lucky..." ...and wasn't cloberred in the Bulge but was resting south with an entire army group...that does not define genius...in any way....

...stir....and stir...

cheers

curt

Mr. Guberman · 03-02-2007, 10:05 AM,

my favorite story(s) is (are) when he goes and pees(pisses) on everything...he did that a lot, for real...a nut maybe...

...

Mr. Guberman · 03-02-2007, 10:32 AM,

Legion,

Ami generals:

Sam Grant
Bill Sherman
Nate Forrest
Tom Jackson
Pat Clebourne
Tecumseh
Crazy Horse
Geronimo
Bloody Nose
Bobby Lee (..uh...er...but yeah...)
Dances with Wolves...!?
hell...George Crook
...and et al...

...see...

cheers

Curt

McIvan · 03-02-2007, 10:59 AM,

Well....I reckon that if you worry your enemy, you must be doing something right. I'm certainly no unconditional Patton fan though; I wouldn't have let him anywhere near the D-Day landings for example, and his generalship in Sicily left a lot to be desired, haring off after unimportant and undesignated objectives for personal glory and ordering some frankly harebrained outflanking schemes.

Digger · 03-02-2007, 12:35 PM,

It is pretty easy to pick on Patton as he did provide his own caricature. He was certianly no brilliant strategist, nor was he a great organiser. He was, however a quick decision maker and a great oppurtunist. His wide right hook around St Lo, which sealed the Germans fate at Falaise, was exactly that. Other generals may have doddered and limited the pursuit, fearing ambush. He was the perfect man for this task a risk taker that urged his tanks forward, and even if alot of was for some of his own glory. It worked.

The real is fact that Hitler sealed the fate of all his army in Normandy by refusing them the chance to fall back intact after their flank had been turned and blow the Seine bridges is the main reason the Germans were wiped out at Falaise.

Some may argue that Patton really did what any general would have done. This does have some merit as the Germans commanders knew full well what was going on, I just don't belive they expected an Allied general to be that agressive and to move so quickly. I think that Hitler's erros and insanity really just made Patton look good.

History is written by the victors and it is much more palatable to laud Patton's charge accross France than to focus on the inability of the OKW to see sense and order their troops back. I have no doubt that the campaign in France would have gone on for longer had Falaise no happened.

He was effective at pusuit and exploitation, but when this is weighed against the fact that the Germans were the architects of their own destruction in France. I think his own claims at greatness are somewhat diminished.

Matt ~Digger

Mr. Guberman · 03-02-2007, 02:37 PM,

...when Patton arrived at Normandy, his objective was to breakout...toward Brest, if I am not correct. It was only after the stunning outflanking of the German forces and the bottling up of the Brest port areas, that a great discussion occurred amongst Allied planners...and then Patton was allowed to take ~2/3rds of the American force and move southeast while the rump of the American forces were to reduce the Brest port fortifications...Patton..surely an animal of opportunity...those were not his plans...but Ike's, I believe...and possibly some Limey staff peoples, et al.

...ad nauseum...Patton et al...

but sincerely cheers, all

curt