Gamey?

[Baelfiin]

Hey guys

What is gamey? The word has come up a lot in the forums recently and it has been sticking in my mind. Is there (or should there be) a list of tactics/tricks/loopholes that are considered "gamey" and not to be used in a game? Personally i would hate to have a situation where I did something that I thought was clever and hurt someone's feelings because they interpreted it as a gamey tactic or an abuse.
In the RedStar/WhiteStar thread they are talking about helicopters and what they can and cannot do. I dont think that there is anyway that we can *know* one way or another. I *suspect* that any major airmobile operation behind the "lines" would be suicide without a major CAP and escort effort from the air force. Luckily that conflict never ocurred so we dont have any historical data to refer to.
Maybe it would be possible to have an "HTH approved list of gamey tactics" that players can look over and agree on along with whichever optional rules that they are using. Not part of a menu or anything in the game itself but just a list on the forum that those individual players can agree on.
I have a good friend that I have been playing board wargames for the last 15 years and HPS titles recently now that gaming room space has given way to Kids room space in my house. In a Bulge game my German-playing friend abused the crap out of my allied units that were fixed in position by staying just out of activation range and sliding around to isolate and destroy them. Of course it was highly annoying to me and I colorfully explained that to him. The upside of the campaign came a little while later when the weather cleared and I showed his multiple piles of artillery in Tmode why he needed to click on Limited Air Recon in the optional rules when he started the game.

Long nite at work ive rambled enough 8)

Scott

[Aaron]

In a Bulge game my German-playing friend abused the crap out of my allied units that were fixed in position by staying just out of activation range and sliding around to isolate and destroy them.

That is Gamey

Aaron

[Dog Soldier]

Baelfiin:

There are numerous threads here on this MB of what players think is gamey play. Search the archives also since this topic has not come up for some time. Those threads should give some guidance of what club members think. In terms of tournaments, the tournament director has the final say in all issues involving tournament play, final. Tide1 is the director of the tournament you mentioned. Direct your comments to him. Many of these matters are better handled directly with the tournament director via email than airing them in the MB.

At the blitz, our philosophy is that players should agree on things like optional rules and gamey tactics prior to beginning a game. If something arises during the game, discuss the issue with your opponent.

Most people will be glad to discuss these things before and during a game when creating new relationships for gaming. Many players here have long term relationships with other players they have played against. These relationships are based on mutually agreed standards of play.

The mission of the club is to provide a forum for players to find others who share their views. The club view point is spelled out in the Rules of Engagement section.
A list of "HTH approved list of gamey tactics" is not required, nor necessary, IMHO. Play is by choice. There is some trial and error component in finding players that share your views of how games should be played. Realize this and experiment with different players. Search the boards for posts made by a player before accepting or initiating a game. you will find that you disagree or agree with a player's postings as a good indicator for compatible gaming.

Dog Soldier

[Volcano Man]

"Gamey" is basically when someone exploits a rule or a scenario deficiency to their advantage. The most common gamey tactics revolves around helicopter units. Flying scout or attack helos to a supply source and then landing to block supplies is probably at the top of the list. I am sure there are many more though. A good rule of thumb is that if an action does not pass the realism test then it is considered "gamey".

[Glenn Saunders]

In a Bulge game my German-playing friend abused the crap out of my allied units that were fixed in position by staying just out of activation range and sliding around to isolate and destroy them.

That is Gamey

Aaron

Not sure which generation of update this came from but if the situation occurs in the current release, please contact me off line and we can discuss it further.

I don't want to hijack this thread for a scn issue which i can resolve and I've recently done a lot of work in FG85 to combat this very issue.

Glenn

[Marquo]

I think one of the most rank, vile gamey tactics is using air recon to sight fixed units you know are in the T mode, and then pounding them with artillery and air assets. I still recall the snide comment my first ever pbem opponent emailed me with his German move in S'41; something about the glorious luftewaffe's "luck" in discovering a park of unsuspecting Soviet tanks in the T mode.

What an @$$hole.

Marquo

[Aditia Holdem]

limited air recon is a must for me. Not just against abuse, but also to eliminate those devastating lucky brakes from a scenario (imagine having the HQ units of your en route WP divisions destroyed before they reach the front in those fast paced modern campaign games, deadly...)

Also, I like to play with No Save pbem, but not every player likes that... Myself I rarely reboot my PC, so it's no problem for me to just minimize a game if I cannot finish the turn in a single sitting.

As for the helo's, I imagine that when the MC games were designed that their diverse use was anticipated. And if their use as ZOC machines wasn't approved, there would have been more Bn's and less ZOC's?

[Krak]

While I agree there are many gamey 'tactics' that can be applied I don't think sneaking around fixed units is a problem. To my way of thinking this merely represents infiltration of the enemy from intelligence reports prior to a well planned attack. And also a lax enemy command. Certainly in the Bulge example any commander with any sense at all would stay just out of sight for as long as possible when approaching or outflanking a position. Don't confuse good intelligent play and exploiting an enemies flawed defences as gamey. Sometimes it just may be the only way to replicate an historical situation. Lets face it those front line inf units in bulge were surprised and thrashed. This ploy merely makes an historical result possible. Then again I could be totally wrong. Just my two cents.

[Baelfiin]

Hi guys

In a Bulge game my German-playing friend abused the crap out of my allied units that were fixed in position by staying just out of activation range and sliding around to isolate and destroy them.

That is Gamey

Aaron

Not sure which generation of update this came from but if the situation occurs in the current release, please contact me off line and we can discuss it further.

I don't want to hijack this thread for a scn issue which i can resolve and I've recently done a lot of work in FG85 to combat this very issue.

Glenn

This Bulge game was 3 years ago, I cant remember the Version now, It definatley was not the latest version out now.

Dog Soldier:
Thanks for your reply. I have had nothing but good experiences from opponents from the club 8)


Scott

[FM WarB]

[
[quote=tazaaron]
In a Bulge game my German-playing friend abused the crap out of my allied units that were fixed in position by staying just out of activation range and sliding around to isolate and destroy them.

In many Bulge scenarios (some I had a hand in designing) posted since the initial release the initial US positions have been set so that such a tactic is not possible.
"Boney's not a gentleman," said Wellington. Ideally, anything that is historically impossible should be prevented by the game system and the scenario/oob/pdt design.
As an aside to Glenn, I would say the Russkis would be not be able to slip past US units in the Fulda Gap (2/11 ACR late 70's vet) and I'm glad they didn't try!