Crew Cost and Victory Points

matxer · 06-22-2007, 08:28 AM,

Well, the ai is so stupid that you can't play solo for long.

The SPMBT documentation claims that the ai has been much improved since SP2. Big Grin

It is true that all wargames suffer the same issue. I have recently tested the HPS wargames. They claim to have recently much improved the ai. Big Grin

That is why The Blitz has such a big success: you can't play war alone !

Grumbler · 06-22-2007, 02:35 PM,

Not sure we want an AI that can fight. Remember Skynet? The US Army already has a T-11 in service, it just hasn't been armed yet. Bolting a LMG on it isn't that much of a technical challenge. The first kill of a human by a robot was a long time ago. The robot had to be told to shoot, but that is because the Air Force wanted to keep a human in the loop. There are over 40,000 robots doing combat missions in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. I feel much better about that knowing they cannot shoot with getting permission.
Robots don't miss, they don't get tired and they don't quit or refuse orders. They don't feel pain, or know fear, pity or remorse. A battery charge and lube job every now and then.

matxer · 06-22-2007, 07:13 PM,

Well, ai in a tactical (or operational) wargame and ai for a robot-soldier are two different thing.

In the first place, we wouldn't want people whose job is to kill human beings, would we ? But we need them.

Havoc · 06-23-2007, 01:06 AM,

How many points if I chase the crew off the map with a panzer on their heels? Big Grin

Grumbler · 06-23-2007, 01:46 AM,

Units that exit the map count the same as kills, at least in MBT. Not sure about W@W. IIRC, W@W has 'exit the map' victory conditions. One of the better differences in the Matrix version of SP is the variety of victory conditions. Not just capture the flag, but hold the flags, hidden flags and flags that once are taken, stay taken. Those and the variable start line are pretty neat. If it wasn't for the spidey sense and those dam Rambo crews.

Matxer, An algorithm that can go toe to toe with a human in a war game could and would be adapted to a robot. War is really just a ritualized form of hunting, so the decision making process would be the same, no matter if the places to hide were virtual or real. Target selection ( the key to winning the firefight) would be the same, virtual or real world.
It would be a lot of work, but tactics could be coded. Operations and Strategy are mostly logistic efforts, so that would be different. Besides, the generals would grow to love robotic privates, as would the politicians, but I don't think they would be so keen about robotic generals.
Right now the French are leading the field, slightly ahead of the Japs.

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6263763539.html

The difference between a robot using a garden hose to clean the driveway and a LMG to clean the banlieues is just a matter of programming.
Remember, the robot doesn't care. Driveways, banlieues, hose, machine gun, it;'s all the same to "Nao"

matxer · 06-23-2007, 01:57 AM,

'Units that exit the map count the same as kills'

Really ? I didn't know that.
Grumbler, you're pretty knowledgeable at SPMBT.

shortreengage · (This post was last modified: 06-23-2007, 07:04 AM by shortreengage.)

Quote:'Units that exit the map count the same as kills'

It do not agree.

The divisions which have left from a battlefield are considered rescueed and do not add points to the opponent.
For example, "SPA" left from Map can fire at the enemy as " Off.map Arty " as they do not disappear from " Bomardament menu ".
Here only you will not see their shooting at Replay Turn (button " V ").

Grumbler · 06-23-2007, 05:53 AM,

matxer Wrote:'Units that exit the map count the same as kills'

Really ? I didn't know that.
Grumbler, you're pretty knowledgeable at SPMBT.

Maybe. I have been playing SP since before day one. I had a cousin that worked at at JCS and got the bootleg beta disk, so when it hit the stores, I was waiting out front with green stuff in my grubby hand.
The thing is that the changes come so fast and furious that I have stopped trying to keep up with them. 3.0 seemed to be a back step from 2.51. I still haven't noticed any difference between 3.0 and 3.5
Then again I'm not an equipment guy, I look more at how the changes effect tactics.
Epoletov could be correct about moving off-map in 3.5. I have never tested it. The original purpose behind counting exited units as kills was to keep guys from gaming the system by moving off map to shoot at their opponents off-map arty. As it was explained then, due to limitations in the code, the only way to stop that was to count the units that moved off map as kills. That led to the curious case of being able to target those units, even though they were killed.
I would guess the programmers couldn't test to see if the unit was dead before targeting , so they did the test before shooting. So your off board unit will target the enemies off board unit, but it won't shoot at it.
I think they re-did the off map counter battery module a while back ( 2.0?) and the 'helio bug' might have returned from the dead.

I will look and see. I am playing Hakseang in a game and I had a problem and had to reload my turn. He had slaughtered my on map arty that turn, and when I reloaded , his luck ran the other way. So I ran all the SPA's and tracked mortars he had killed off the map to keep things kosher. When I get the next turn back I'll look and make sure that the points were counted (redlined) and see if I can target his off map arty.

shortreengage · 06-23-2007, 07:04 AM,

Mortar destroyed when them unloaded from transport in grey hex. Cry

But if Mortar it is independent (for example, Speed=1) moved in grey hex then remained alive.

Grumbler · 06-23-2007, 11:38 AM,

Well Epoletov, you are right about them not being red-lined. I will have to wait until the game is over to see if the points counted or not. I couldn't request a bombardment mission from any of my spotters, one of which is a FIST. I was able to select the zero unit that was off map and B key it. I will see if any shells land next turn.