Greeting all and H2H/CC Opponent wanted...

[Vesku]

WW2 infantry is too slow per turn

So you are speaking of the actual movement rate of the unit. I have noticed that too. What is striking me as strange is that infantry moves 3 hexes in woods, but only 1 or 2 in an orchard. It is easier to move through an orchard then woods.

That and the ability of units to fire 100 yards into the woods; quite the sighting ability.

Hmm, infantry moves 2 hexes in woods and 2 hexes in orchard in WinSPWW2. Not 3 and 1 (just tested it to be sure).

Actually its not 'easier' to move through an orchard, not always at least. If you can move parallel to the trees it may be. But if you have to move through the rows it's often a lot more difficult than woods. Not only are the trees often closely together and with lot's of thick and intermingled branches that hang low but there can be ropes, metal wires and other things linking them and creating real difficulties in passing through. A lot depends on what sort of orchard it is. On average it's about the same as passing through an 'average' wooded hex. So movement rate is the same for both; for infantry at least, haven't tested vehicles.

The sighting ability into trees CAN be 100 yards, it's not a given. Sometimes you only see the first tree hex, sometimes you can see into the hex behind it. This reflects the difference in density that is found in wooded area's. Some area's are relatively open; they still have trees and bushes but not enough to restrict a reasonable view to below 100 yards. I'd find it unrealistic if ALL wooded hexes would block all view, they are only 50 yards across after all.
The game also takes into account the season btw, if you set up a fall or winter game (in a european theatre) you'll have a much bigger chance of getting hexes that allow you to see 100 yards into it (less foliage...).

Narwan

Speaking of woods, I've been in woods where you can see over 500 meters quite well. The pines have first branches 5 meters off the ground and there is no undergrowth at all, nothing else blocking your vision but the trunks which can be quite sparse. And the opposite where the ground is filled with moss covered boulders and still the thicket prevents any movement between them. Moving 50 meters would take easily five minutes. But that's Finland, we have plenty of different woods.

[Weasel]

Yeah, I guess I spoke without thinking. The forests in Canada that I have been in all have lots of undergrowth, so vis of 25 yards is about norm.

Now in Europe they plant forests for harvest, so there is no undergrowth.

[Stonefire]

Yeah, I guess I spoke without thinking. The forests in Canada that I have been in all have lots of undergrowth, so vis of 25 yards is about norm.

Now in Europe they plant forests for harvest, so there is no undergrowth.

Maybe a generalisation of the management of the european forests.
Forest density also depends on the climate, humidity, species and level over the sea - You know forests in a warm, lowland, humid environment is called jungle ;-)
So woods/forest in a game has to be a kind of compromise.

[Greybeard]

Oh.. I see you guys have never been to SW Florida.. Forest with some pretty wierd trees.. Pines with tops a good 20-30 feet off the floor, mangroves, palms, and all sorts of other junk to fill in the bottom.. visiblity? - depends upon how thick the ground cover is, and you measure that distance when you lose sight of your hand :) - and then there are the swamps and canals tossed in for good measure..

Seeing another guy? - well - normally you hear them crashing thru the under growth long before you see them..

You should see my lawn after a week.. most other places develope this kind of growth in a month.. make having a riding mower a necessity - wish I had one *sigh*

Now, in Arizona it's different.. they need to landscape using stuff that doesn't consume water - so they use lots od Rock.. only place I know where you can go to the 'Farmers Market' and find rock ground cover for sale..

-Greybeard