Tactical Doctrine Question

[Sgt Barker]

Surfing when I should be working came across something that's bothered me for a while. At least since the final battle scene of Saving Private Ryan.

What are the rules, the doctrine, about personel shooting "through" friendly forces? Does it vary by nation? Thinking about WWII technology here, but applies to modern as well.

A last scene in Private Ryan shows the paras setting up for the German assault, with some of the troops in foxholes/craters at the end of the street. One view shows, I think, Hanks looking straight at where the Germans will approach, and what's in front of him? Tom Sizemore's head, poking up from another crater about 10 feet away. Right in the line of fire.

"Well, movies aren't real life." But what are the rules in real life when dealing with, say, a company advancing while another gives covering fire? On level ground it doesn't seem like the best plan to shoot "through" your mates. Are there any standards, ala, "no friendlies within a 45 degree arc?" Can't imagine it's just "use common sense," military's love of things being by the book and all.

[Jim von Krieg]

I would say that it is not normal to fire through friendly forces; however, it can happen in the confusion of battle.

What typically happens is that militaries establish doctrine to get everyone on the same page on how you accomplish things. Then Units establish Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures (TTPs) to get into the painstaking details of how they're actually going to implement doctrine. This allows units to operate in close proximity to each other with the basic understanding that they know what to expect from friendly forces on the battlefield.

In an offensive scheme, assaulting elements usually maneuver on the objective, while the supporting elements fire suppressive fire. As the assaulting element closes on the objective, the supporting element will lift and shift fire to allow the assaulting element to move on to the objective without fear of friendly fire. Enemy forces gets no break because as the supporting element lifts and shifts, the assaulting element is now firing and assaulting the position.

Your TTPs would establish things like the assaulting element will maneuver to the left on an enemy position using bounding overwatch and a purple smoke grenade will signal the supporting elements to lift and shift fire for the assault.

In a defensive scheme, you will establish fields of fire from each defensive position to create interlocking fields of fire and prevent friendly fire casualties. Each defensive position is only allowed to fire down a specific fire lane because straying outside your established limits means you may strike friendly positions. You don't necessarily protect the front of your position, the guys to your left and right cover the front of your position. As they protect your front, you protect their front.

This criss-cross effect (known as interlocking fields of fire) establishes deadly crossfires which can chew up troops moving in the open against your position. On the flanks you will establish MG positions to sweep the entire front of your defensive position and establish a final protective line (FPL). The FPL is where your MGs fire when your position is under maximum pressure from the enemy. That wall of lead along the FPL is your last ditch effort to keep the enemy out of your positions.

In a confusing battle like portrayed in segments of SPR, it is entirely possible that you will jump into the line of fire of someone. As they say... S - H - I - T... Happens...

And as I like to say, anything can get you killed on a battlefied to include doing everything right as well as doing absolutely nothing... Wrong place, wrong time, and pure unadulterated luck play a big role in what happens when the steel and lead is flying... Of course, your chances of survival are better if you and the guys around you know what to do and expect.

So, I wouldn't get too bunged up over something that was portrayed in a movie, because we've all seen enough movies to know that the hollywood types generally don't get the "military" bearing of Soldiers correct. Why would we expect them to get the tactics right.

It is typically hard for this long time Soldier to watch a military movie because it is a rare movie indeed that gets the little details of the military correct such as proper salutes, haircuts, wear of uniforms, and a whole slew of things that iritates me to no end. SPR does a better job that most movies out there IMHO.

Regards,

Jim vK

[AlienXXX]

Once I saw a program about the making of Saving Private Ryan.
The actors actually went through recruit training, were marched for hours and had to lie in the mud for the making of the movie.
They wanted the actors to feel as much as possible the pain and the exhaustion of the WW2 soldier.

If that was commercial stunt, a way to actually get the actors to step into the roles they were playing or simply a way of turning them into half bearded and smelly men... I leave it up to you to decide.
I think it is a great movie.

I think the military expert suffers the same frustration at watching a war movie as the scientist when watching some so-called "Science" fiction movies.
Rule of thumb: a movie is just that, entertainment. If you want realism, watch documentaries :cool::)