Tips from the Frontline

[Pol]

Nice stuff to read here.
My advice: don't rely on Stalins in an anti-tank role too much. They were not designed to be anti-tank weapons plus they are bit undermodelled in CMBB. They are slow, they have slow rate of fire and their turret front can be penetrated even by german 75L/48. Which means it's an even match for Pz IV. When facing german panzers, try not to be hulldown, since only upper hull can survive hits. I always try to use stalins only in anti-infantry fight. 122mm is marvellous infantry killer.

[RNL Tiger]

Initial Engagement

The initial engagement starts as expected and POS notes: “In CM a lot of fun comes from trying to guess and second-guess the enemy, or as Master Po would say - "Expect the unexpected, grasshopper". The shootout should show that PzIV-longs are easily capable of taking out T-34/85's, you don't need Tigers to do it.”

The downside to the engagement is that my tank caught fire and blocked LOS for the others! That was the first time that has happened to me; unfortunately it left my front three at a serious numerical disadvantage giving POS the spoils of war. I asked how long does the tank burn for?


[See this thread: https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=43182]

“They burn for ever in cmbb. Thats a disadvantage of line astern, a burner might block the rest. That’s why mine are in two line astern columns down both sides of the road, so a burner would only block his column. PS - burners in cmbb always block LOS, but burners in cmak sometimes only belch thin smoke which doesn't block LOS so be careful in cmak… In some circumstances a burner can be a good thing, because he provides an instant 'smoke screen' to shield his mates behind him from a superior force, but in your case it worked against you because the mighty Stalins couldn't see through the smoke and were excluded from the battle. Chalk up one piece of good luck for me.”

It's worthwhile analysing the early shootout, I pitted my 11 tanks against your 8 (good odds for me) yet when the dust settled I'd lost 3 and you've lost only 4! That's exactly what we'd expect because even though I had numerical superiority, your T-34/85's are a better tank than my IV-longs at that longish range because many of my 75mm shots lost velocity and were ricocheting off the T-34's superior armour, while a hit on my Pz IV's by your heavier 85mm shots went through them like butter. However it was a slightly longer than normal range ~1000m, and at closer ranges less of the IV's shots will ricochet.”

I had rather hoped it would be 4-3 the other way, especially with the IS-2 at ~1000m but that smoke really interfered badly! I lost three immediately and it was also a shame that I lost another one for the total of 4 when trying to extract my remaining tanks but that was really impatience as I could have gone straight backwards to where my IS-2s were but I came out via the side as I thought they would still be out of LOS, big mistake.

I had thought about just leaving the IS-2s there for the initial shootout but I guessed that facing 10 tanks that the crews would probably bail out just because they were being pinged so much.

“Yes, a hail of pinging would soon result in immobilisations and/or damaged guns followed by the crew ejecting even if my 75mm's couldn't actually penetrate. TIP - that's the way to take out pillboxes and bunkers too, just pepper them with a hail of shots (even small-cal will do) and sooner or later the shots will begin flying through the slit, and slits have zero armour..:)

HEY you missed out on an important option - you could have area fired your Stals down the road into the area near the flak gun, the terrific 122mm blast would not only have sent the gun to Valhalla but would quite possibly have immobd a Pz IV or two, or taken off commanders heads even though the Stals couldn't see the IV's. It's a much-used tactic in CM”

Actually that never even occurred to me - area fire - but wouldn't that result in the use of HE rather than AP? “Yes, ALL area-fire is automatically HE but that's what you want anyway, so that the blast will affect enemy units near the impact point. An armour-piercing shell only carries a tiny amount of HE (if any) and wouldn't hurt a fly. Here's a thread showing how area-firing into the ground (in the second pic) can be devastating. https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=39906”

PS - did you notice my baby 20mm flak gun engaging your Stalins, it fires in bursts of several 20mm shot rat a tat/ rat a tat...I knew it couldn't hurt the Stalins but at least it made the commander button. :)

I only got a vague gun contact. “You can area-fire at vague contacts, they still die, vague or not.”

Actually, there was one other idea that I had, thinking about it in retrospect. What if I had placed the IS-2 in front rather than behind in over-watch? Would you expect that to have made a material difference? “Now you mention it, I think I'd have put the Stalins at the front of your column because they had the best armour. I did that with one of my columns, putting a Hetzer at the front of one of them because its armour is better than the IV's, and I hoped it take (and shrug off) the brunt of your fire, but in the event your boys ignored it and went for the soft IV's, thereby out-thinking me.”

On a slightly separate note I had a question about setting cover arcs when tanks are moving. “The gun stays pointing where you pointed it, even if the tank twists and turns. For example if you point it southwest it will stay pointing southwest. Bit like a compass needle, it always points north no matter how the boat or plane keeps changing its heading.”

So, the initial engagement is over and POS can rightfully think he won that tank battle. I have emerged from it scathed and beaten but still with half of my armour force in tact, so I am not down and out. However, the numerical disadvantage in tanks will now be a feature of the tactics but I am by no means finished yet. The key question is what to do next…I need to hit back and claim some armour kills or get to and retain the flags.

[RNL Tiger]

Evaluation of current situation

OK, we have had a few more turns and POS got to the flags first so I am losing again - familiar position for me! I am going to need to look into my bag of tricks as I know POS wont do anything that he doesn't need to... “Okay, the standard procedure in CM is to regard each turn as an intriguing puzzle, firstly think what you WANT to do, the EXAMINE YOUR OPTIONS in the context of the Big Picture, and plump for the one that seems the best, its fun! This decision-making process begins right from the start, I had the option of assigning my tanks in separate groups at different points, or putting the whole mob in a big bunch on the road, which I did and it went slightly in my favour, I lost 3, you've lost 4.

Now the game moves into a Second Phase, you've reversed off the road and are shaping up for a push towards the flags, so I'm forced to move to counter that threat.

See, it’s like fun chess with move and counter-move, Phase after Phase. The main thing both of us need to remember is that I've got 8 tanks left and you've got 4, but all yours are better than mine, especially the Stalins.

The Big Pic is that I'm ahead on points because I've got more flags, so I'm basically in Defensive Mode now, there's no need for me to do anything at all except sit tight and quiet waiting for the game to end..:) You however, MUST attack or you'll lose, so I'm now busy positioning my tanks to protect the flags and form a welcoming committee. The Stalins are the main threat because they have super-duper thick green armour and my only chance of slaying them is with a mass hail of PzIV fire in the hope of getting enough partial pens to brutally club the beasts to death using caveman tactics.”

Enemy forces spotted so far:
• 2x platoon of Panzer IVH
• 1x Hetzer
• 1x 20mm Flak
• 1 Squad, so probably part of a platoon

I have also heard the crack of a sharpshooter and lost 1 tank commander so he still has points for another company of infantry. I know his armour is in the village and I can assume that an infantry company is deployed near the flags. I can also assume that he has a platoon located around the outside flag too.

I still like my overall infantry plan and so I continue to pursue it. My sharpshooters are situated on both flanks to see enemy disposition and perhaps bag a tank commander or two. What needs to change is the deployment of the armour and I decided that I want three tanks [2xT34 and 1xStalin] in the centre to support the infantry and to place the other Stalin to cover the road and so to cover any flanking moves but also to provide options. Those options are basically to cover the other tanks or to range out and look for opportunities to hunt lone tanks. In my limited experience so far POS has always kept his tanks together but you never know! Tactically, it seems clear that if I only mass tanks then it becomes easier for the enemy to a) know where the tanks are and the direction of attack b) to prepare a defense.

So, let’s continue with plan and see how things develop.

[RNL Tiger]

Axis avoid an Allied trap

I’ve sent my two sharpshooters around both flanks to provide “eyes” and this one on my right flank manages to bag a tank commander in the Panzers holding the centre and covering the outside flag.



Whilst the sniper is doing some good work on the right I spy a little gap in the cover in the centre that would allow my tanks to shoot near the centre flag and I decide to exploit that by timing the use of my SU-76M to bombard the right flag and the Axis infantry there. What I hope is that the Axis armour will come to support the infantry and also potentially to knockout the SU-76M and as they move across that gap they will cross my LOS and hopefully my 2xT34s and 1xStalin will bag one or two Panzer IVHs.

So, I get ready and set the trap and then I put my SU-76M in to spring the trap…

Unfortunately as can be seen in the following picture the Panzers remain behind cover and proceed to area fire at my infantry on the right in “4” and then “Now an SU-76 has materialised, I can't get at him yet so I'll blind him with smoke to stop his shenanigans.”



The trap has not worked and worse an Axis sharpshooter claims one of my tank commanders. Therefore I decided that I need to redeploy and I retreat the T34s and move the covering Stalin in the rear back to the road. As these manoeuvres take place a Hetzer appears trying to attack a T34 but gets caught in the sights of two Stalin tanks. Two! Surely this Hetzer will be toast, the Stalin tanks fire…

Both Stalin tanks get off a shot; unfortunately both miss and the Hetzer quickly retreats and the opportunity has gone as quickly as it came. “I originally thought he'd be in position to have a crack at a T-34 but he found himself staring down the barrels of two Stalins so I ordered him to extricate himself. And one of your Stalins is poised to come down the road so I'd better try to get my panzers off the road while I still can. I'm in defensive posture remember because I'm ahead on points, so i don't need to fight unless I have to, and am quite happy to keep dodging as long as I can to let the clock run out.”

As my Stalin tank gets close to the road it gets a clear shot at a Panzer IVH but using an HE round [for some unknown reason] the shell bounces off harmlessly.



Whatever the reason another opportunity has been missed and the Panzer IVH gets away.

Finally the Stalin gets to the road and it is pinged by some unidentified small calibre gun, probably the 20mm Flak that POS mentioned earlier. Strangely, that gun has managed to get LOS to the Stalin but the Stalin cannot see it. Rather than send the Stalin to knock it out I’ll send the sharpshooter instead as I cannot afford to lose another tank.

It’s been disappointing that two opportunities for armour kills have come and gone and the position is unchanged. What I need to do is think about how to crack open this nut because POS has now secured the flags with infantry and placed his Panzers in support. Storming the village by force is likely to end in disaster but I need to do something.

Wait a minute? Can I get an area-fire shot onto those three panzers that have just escaped? Are they still a little too close to the road? It’s worth a try…

[RNL Tiger]

Area fire may have unexpected and unseen benefits

POS had mentioned the use of area-fire so now that my Stalin occupied the road and there were three Panzers just out of LOS it seemed the ideal time to have a go. POS noted shortly afterwards: “Incidentally when your Stalin area-fired into the ground at the side of my 3 panzers a couple of turns ago, the blast damaged the gun of one of them. Somebody must have taught you to area-fire. Here is the picture sequence:

1. Stalin takes aim:



2. Panzer unhurt before Stalin fires:



3. Ouch! The blast/shrapnel damages gun (note label “Gun Damaged”)”



What sort of distance can you expect area fire to work? It seemed to me about 10m? “Yeah that sounds about right for a big HE shell, but smaller-cal shells would have to burst nearer. I think anything smaller than about 75mm don't have enough blast effect to make them a worthwhile area-fire proposition against medium or heavy tanks, but they'd chew up light armour. My approach with area-fire against tanks is to have a crack anyway if you've got nothing else to do, but make sure enemy tanks are not creeping up on you while you're distracted area-firing. (Your unit will auto-cancel its area-fire when it sees the enemy tanks but it could cost it vital - and fatal - precious seconds.)

Whilst I was watching the area-fire I noticed that the score readout seemed to be in my favour and yet I know that can't be true! “Never take the score readout as gospel, it can be just as iffy as flag ownership and serves as a rough guide, and we therefore have to assess the score by using our eyes, we're about level on points from tank kills, but as far as I can tell I've got a stronger grip on the flags so I estimate I'm on course for at least a minor win.” I have the same evaluation, I am losing but “it aint over until it’s over!”

[RNL Tiger]

Situation after Stalin occupies the road

The Allied armour is not doing very well at the moment and lady luck has favoured the Axis from the burning tank to the retreating Hetzer and finally the Panzer IV being hit ineffectually with HE. I had a little bit of luck with the area-fire gun damaging one of the Panzers but what I need is a new plan of attack. Given that the Panzers are holding the village and will no doubt watch the road very carefully I have one of three choices:
1) Mass the armour along the road and hope to win the shootout
2) Redeploy the Stalin tanks to the left flank and try to keyhole some of the Panzers
3) Mass the armour on the right and try to breakthrough to the village

I do not like the odds of a straight shootout from either the road in the centre or on the right flank as I have a numerically inferior force. So I need to try and find a plan that uses the strength of the Stalin, which is in its long range fighting with its strong armour and massive gun. Again there are a few key options with the 2xT34s: I could keep them with the Stalin tanks for extra firepower or bring them around to the right to keep the Axis guessing and looking in both directions. Of course, while there is a benefit to having the Axis tanks watching both directions and so reducing their firepower in any one direction; the downside is that the Allied armour force is also split and could then easily get out-numbered and beaten in detail. Finally, I could keep the 2xT34s in support of the infantry on the right and only threaten the possibility of them attacking the Panzers.

OK – decided; the plan has been formed. I will keep the Stalin tanks on the left flank and the SU-76M will support the infantry and T34s will attack from the right flank. Whilst I do not intend to use them to attack the Panzers head-on, their presence on the flank should keep the Panzers looking both to the left AND right and therefore splitting their firepower and I may be able to keyhole individual tanks. As per the original plan I will take the outside flag first and so I plan to redeploy my infantry at “3” to “4” and use two platoons to take the flag, with the SU-76M in support. Hopefully, they should be able to overwhelm a single defending platoon. Of course, before that can start the group of panzers behind the centre flag need to be dislodged or distracted otherwise they will simply cut the infantry attack to ribbons. So the movement of the Stalin tanks on the left flank is intended to both threaten individual tanks and also to force the defense to reposition and as that happens the T34s will emerge from the right. The last element to the plan will be to send the sharpshooter on the left flank to take out the small 20mm Flak gun that attacked my Stalin on the road.

Well it may not be a good plan but it is a plan! So, a certain amount of manoeuvring is needed in limited cover and the Stalin tanks in particular need to probe the defense and hopefully pick off a few tanks at distance.

[Maakt Droog]

Great post RNL Tiger.

Area fire against tanks can pay dividends. I had an opponent drop 105 arty on an area that included a couple of T-34s. One T-34 was gun damaged by a blast 19m away over its right shoulder (say about 4 o'clock). So, maybe area fire within 20m works with a big enough blast.

Another thing to keep in mind is that buildings provide temporary cover. Looking at the pic above, it looks like the panzers are using a small wooden building and some trees (maybe one tile?) to block los. Sometimes you can get los or at least force your opponent to move the tanks by dropping the building. You'll have to wait for the dust to disappear, though. Also, if they are close enough (which isn't the case here), the exploding building might also damage the tank or TC if he is exposed.

[McIvan]

Or you can just plot your area fire shot into the building, if the tank is hiding close behind. A small overshoot and it's right on the tank....

105mm artillery or better can damage tanks from blast. Lower than that, not so much chance, although 75mm/76mm artillery can kill with a direct hit. 150mm artillery or better is a bona fide tank killer.

[RNL Tiger]

Probing the defense

The game shifts gear as the Allies try to probe the defense. “After the cataclysmic opening exchange of fire in Phase One we're now in a peaceful Phase Two as we jockey for position like in a chess match, its normal in real life too. Problem for both of us is that I mistakenly set the tree density to only medium instead of heavy, so there are not too many tree clumps for us to jockey around, hence the need to cling to what cover is available, making the game slower and somewhat paralysed, think 'blander'. That's why my preference is always for heavy trees, they create a more interesting game because there's plenty of cover to manoeuvre around and through.

Your inf in particular no doubt wish there were more trees so they could sneak closer to the flags through them. Inf lurv woods. Regard clumps of trees as the black squares on a chessboard. Throw a lot of them out and the chess match would be kinda bland, the queen and bishops would just sit at the far end keeping everybody in perpetual check..;)

PS - I think I've solved the Stalin HE puzzle, it was sheer LUCK that saved my panzer, as 9 times out of 10 the HE would have killed it.”

The Stalin has redeployed on the left and tries a long range shootout where its heavier armour and big gun should give it a distinct advantage:



However, that is not the case as the Stalin tanks behave very strangely. The Stalin hunting at just over 700m fires HE again and misses but the Panzers are on target, scoring a partial penetration and a casualty. Rather than continue the fight the Stalin then bizarrely decides to move on and fires again at the Panzers without stopping but as is now becoming usual - ineffectually and with HE.

The second Stalin also on hunt has lost its tank commander and does not either see the fire-fight in progress or spot the enemy. Consequently it simply passes by its partner Stalin and continues on its merry way and even reversing it back into LOS has no appreciable effect as it takes a couple of shots from the Panzers, ignores them, and moves on. The Stalin tanks have acted strangely and between their poor spotting and even worse gunnery they have not performed well - is this just bad luck?

I noted with POS: “Maybe its not luck maybe these Stalin veteran crews are just particularly poor or had some dodgey porridge this morning. I am not sure they can get a kill at the moment... I thought I was being clever by shooting at distance and taking advantage of their strengths. Maybe I need to get much closer :-)” “Maybe the crew is on crack, they're still firing HE and they seemed to panic forward after taking a partial hit. I might as well let my panzers shoot it out with him, 2 onto one are good odds against one Stalin with a junkie crew.” “I am completely confused now. I even reversed my Stalin back into LOS and it took a hit and just rolled forward again without a care in the world. I think you are right - they must be on drugs.... :-)" "Yes I give up trying to figure it out. At least you had some luck, I scored 2 partial pens and the beast is still alive, trundling around like some enraged wounded T.Rex, it usually needs more than two blows from a club to kill a Stalin.”

“One on my Stalin tanks then had another opportunity but it was a shame that I had my Stalin on "fast" when it got a side shot at the Panzer, again I missed the LOS and didn't have it on "hunt". I am going to need to pay MUCH more attention to LOS as it is costing me dear! :-) After saying that it was still using HE and with the gunnery skills displayed so far it wouldn't have got anywhere near the target. :-)” “Yes the crew is fighting like girl guides, not your fault, just remember in CM all units have an AI (artificial intelligence) mind of their own and sometimes do things on their own initiative whether you want them to or not, so strictly speaking it might not be a bug.”

Whilst this Stalin action is not good it does not compare with the disaster on the right. I have decided to move the T34s further around to the right and I move them in what I thought was an out of LOS path on the reverse slope of a crest of a hill, even though it was close to the crest of that hill. However, I was wrong and even worse, I had one of the T34s just stop and present its side to the Panzers – of course, they were more than happy to take advantage of this stupidity. I have no idea why it stopped, I am guessing that I must have had two fast commands an original one and a new one and it finished the first move and waited in command delay before executing the next one. Unfortunately for the tank it was in LOS of the panzers when it stopped - it never even saw where the knockout blow came from.



My T34/85 stopped just behind the crest of a hill and presented a lovely side shot for your Panzers. “Yes he was behind the crest but not quite enough behind. Lesson - if in doubt about whether the enemy will get LOS on you, play it safe and give him a wider berth for insurance. "Walk wide o' the widow of Windsor" - Rudyard Kipling.”

There is one spot of good news and that is the sniper has finally arrived at the ATG and has LOS to it. So, hopefully that will get knocked out soon.



However, a few seconds later the ATG disappears again:



Presumably the target that the ATG was following has gone and so it has returned to “hiding”; in the process it is [surprisingly] no longer in the sniper’s LOS. I was curious about this and asked “Have you been "hiding" your 20mm Flak? My sharpshooter has had LOS on it and then lost it again, which was a surprise?” “Yes my flak sometimes speaks, then falls silent and invisible again when he has no targets. No hide, I simply reduced the size of its arc so it'd stay silent concentrating on the area near a flag and hitting any inf entering the area. Losing lock-on is quite normal in CM if the target stops firing or moving, especially at longer ranges. For example my panzers have been saturating the woods near the flag on your right with area-fire to flush out your inf but I can't see any infantry, just a bunch of red stars, so I'm firing at and around the stars in the hope there are still inf there who'll eventually start running backwards in fear away from the flag. Remember, the further units are away from a flag, the less chance they have of owning it at the end.” Clearly, I will need to get that ATG firing at something so that the sniper can do his work… Does "Hide" also reduce exposure to 0% for infantry? [Useful for artillery/HE barrages except it seems to me that it doesn't? “'Hide' seems to reduce exposure (but not necessarily to zero) It plants the units face in the dirt and sometimes (but not always) breaks any lock the enemy might have on him. He can't fire while on 'Hide' unless the enemy gets close and his spotting ability is also reduced while on 'Hide'. I also slap a minimum arc on him too and cancel any firing he's doing, to urge him to hold his fire and stay invisible, but they sometimes get jumpy and refuse to stay hidden and will also fire beyond their arc. In fact I've been putting some of my inf on Hide at the flag on your right because your inf were engaging them and making them get panicky, but Hide doesn't seem to have broken your lock on them and they're still taking punishment.”

Preparations for the final attack are becoming unstuck. I was supposed to have 2 Stalin tanks coming from the left and 2 T34s coming from the right and shortly afterwards the infantry making their attack on the flag outside of the village. Ideally, I would have knocked out a couple of tanks by now and also killed the ATG crew to even up the odds. I do not have time to change the plan again and the loss of the T34 makes a difficult situation worse but there is still a lot of firepower and if they can keyhole just one or two tanks they may be able to tip the scales back towards the allies. However, it is looking increasingly like a very long shot.

[RNL Tiger]

Preparation for the Final Attack

It is not looking good at the moment but it’s not over yet. The Axis panzers won the initial tank engagement and their infantry got to the flags first. In short, they are winning very comfortably with probably a major victory. The Axis armour occupied the rear of the village and has then remained positioned there covering the left and right flank respectively. As the Allied armour has moved around they have adjusted their position accordingly mainly to re-orientate and make minor adjustments based on using cover. This has made them difficult to attack and dislodge and when they have been attacked it has been rather ineffectual.

However, it is time for the final attack. So, I have made the following preparations:
1) SU-76M has been bombarding the outside flag for the last couple of turns to soften up the defense
2) 82mm mortar has been peppering the trees just behind the flag for a couple of turns for the same reason and will now start to fire into the area of the panzers [I don’t know how effective that will be but I will find out soon]. The purpose is to provide a distraction for my lone tank on the right…
3) T34 will come in from the right flank and will hopefully engage the five panzers one at a time rather than two or three together. It is a risky approach but my infantry are also depending on it…
4) 2 platoons will attack the outside flag, 1 squad will go across the open ground and be relying on the T34 and mortar to provide enough distraction for the panzers to not be cut down by their machine guns. The other squads will be ready to fire into the area of the flag and kill any defenders clustered around the flag
5) Stalin tanks will rush back to the village and hopefully do better at the shorter ranges. Of course they will be more vulnerable too but that is an acceptable risk
6) Sniper will hopefully knockout the 20mm flak

There is nothing left to do but to go for it and hope that the timing of the assault is simultaneous rather than each individual attack being beaten by the defenders in sequence. “As regards the game, remember you don't have to actually sit on top of the flags to control them, you can simply get as many men and armour as possible near to them (within roughly about 80 metres) to have a chance, but the nearer the better to carry more weight. Then at the end of the game the computer weighs up who has the most stuff in the flag vicinity and awards ownership accordingly, although it'll often decide the flag stays neutral and un-owned by either side if both sides have roughly the same amount of stuff there. Needless to say, tanks carry more weight when swaying flag ownership.”