Armour Facing Rules

[Hobbes]

Hi chaps, I don't remember seeing many debates about the armour facing rules - I'm sure there must have been some in the past.
Maybe because 95+% of people play with them on.

I've never played anyone who wants them off although I have played against Don and I know he prefers to play without (But we had them on for playtesting a scenario - and because he is a nice chap).

I found myself waking this morning and thinking about this - my first thought of the day - very weird.

To me armour facing should be very important for a game of this scale. I don't think the Campaign Series gives enough advantage to a player that manages to turn the flank of an opponent but at least armour facing gives one reason to try. At Divisional scale I can see that facing would not be important but at the scale of CS I cannot understand how one could argue against it. Yet for several esteemed players such as Don the game is more realistic without.

I would like to hear your views for and against.
Cheers, Chris

[junk2drive]

I would prefer it to be off because of the mechanics of the games. Primarily that you have no control over your retreating armour exposing it's rear on the opponent's turn.

Squad level games with individual tanks should reflect position but I think platoon level is more abstract.

However, it's not like facing on in CS is an automatic death penalty. I've had plenty of side and rear shots do nothing to the enemy...

[Huib Versloot]

Play a game with individual vehicles such as CM and you might come to the conclusion that it is better to turn the rule off, and that the rule is definitely out of place in a game with 250 meter hexes.
Fortunately the rule is optional otherwise it would be the worst miss of the entire game IMO.
Flanking is a broader concept than just hitting armor in the side really. Flanking works well in many scenarios in my experience.

[Von Earlmann]

I hate it but, everyone else seems to just have to have the rule on.I think it is out of place in this scale and tends to lead to some gamey tactics........I do enjoy playing Don without the armor facing rule :-).......in fact the few scenarios I have played with it off have been the most enjoyable overall.

[Jason Petho]

I prefer it ON.

Jason Petho

[Chuck10mtn]

Anyone wanting to try to play with it off I'm willing to try. It can't hurt any and may be more enjoyable. Record it or not let me know.

[Valor]

I have no problems to play either way :smoke:

But maybe because most of my games were played with that option ON, I have developed some nice tactics that would definitely won't work without?

Regards

Slawek

[Cole]

Depending on the scenario a case can be made either way.

Play a campaign scenario such as CHRONICLES OF THE 1ST PANZER ARMY where 8 turns equals one day then the justification of armor facing rules might not be so strong (though I alway prefer to play with all optional rules).

Play a short and to the point slug fest like STILL FULL OF FIGHT with a more tactical and fast paced feel then I think armor facing rules do have a role.

[Jumbo]

As Cole just said. I also believe a case can be made either way. His examples for such seem pretty good. However if there was to be a move with players wanting to play alot more games with the armor facing rules off, Then IMO I believe the defense values allready provided would warrent some tweeking. For example: Your basic M4 Sherman tank has a defense value of 8, While a King Tigers is 16. IMO a King Tiger provided alot more than twice the overall protection. An attack from the air would be the only exception there.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Armor facing rules simply call for the designer, tournament director, or individual players to communicate the reasons for or against using them? :)

That's my opinion. I'll play with them on or off depending on the situation. So far I think I have had one opponent ask me to play with them turned off. I prefer them turned on (for the reasons Slawek stated). But, I see the benefit of turning them off in games that are designed outside the "original scale", upon which the game itself was developed. :chin:
No, I am not going to turn this into a re-discussion of the "scale" issues that some members have. :kill:
An eight day turn in CS seems to turn it into a PzC game? But, I'm all for whatever floats anyone's boat! If Earl wants to put the request for armor facing turned off in any of his designs, that is cool too! :cool2: