PzIV H or t34/85 which is better

[MGK(FGM)]

PzIV H or t34/85 which is better - that is a question :)

IMHO pzIV is much better because
it has better gun and optics so probability of first successful shot is bigger
better armour penetration,
better optics,
2 x more ap rounds,
smoke ammo,
better armour on hull,
smaller silhouette

t34 is faster and has better tracks
bigger gun is more deadly versus infantry

what about rate of fire ?

[Ratzki]

At 1000 metres, the T34/85 should take the PzIV H every time from the front, if it can get a shot in. The slower turret will be it's undoing if each were to get a side shot at one another, but again, at 1000 metres, the T34/85 stands half a chance of taking a hit or two. The PzIV H does not. At closer ranges with some cover, I'd give the advantage to the PzIV H, but by a hair just because of the optics, turret speed, and the increased chances of killing at close range. Overall, I would take the T34/85 as the superior tank.

[Colonel Talvela]

i like t34 mobility. except dont ever select early t34s in a platoon. Command delays are way too bad for the non leader

[Lord Bane]

The T-34/85 is better without question. Anyone who doubts this needs to play the master of the T-34/85. Who is this you ask? IMO, it is the Blitz's very own BT-7. He made me respect what a T-34/85 can do in the hands of a skilled player.:bow:

Lord Bane

[Marshall666]

i prefer the t34/85.i like the sound the gun makes :whis:

[PoorOldSpike]

These are the Malitz purchased/ destroyed figures for IVH's and 34/85's -

I bought 70x IVH's and lost 52. (That's 74% destroyed)
My oppos bought 15x IVH's and lost 12 (80% dest)

I bought 114x 34/85's and lost 74 (65% dest)
My oppos bought 51x 34/85's and lost 31 (61%)

------------------------------------------------------------

TOTAL IVH's bought by me and oppos = 85, of which 64 were lost (75%)
TOTAL 34/85's bought by me and oppos = 165, of which 105 were lost (64%)

I'm only a grunt wargamer and not a statistics nut, but the figs are clear that we all lost a lot more IVH's (75%) than we did 34/85's (64%)

But leaving all the figures aside, my own gut feeling from 6 years of playing CM is that the IVH and 34/85 are so equal that I personally can't tell them apart and don't know if any can be said to be better than the other because they've both got pros and cons (speed, armour, size etc etc)

[Lord Bane]

Damn it man...just commit to one or the other! LOL
Lord Bane

[Ratzki]

Thanks for the info POS. They show a slight edge to the T34/85 even in close fighting, I thought the PzIV would have a little edge or be even. As the shots get longer I feel the stats would more favour the T34/85.

[PoorOldSpike]

Okay okay if people are twisting my arm for an answer I think i'll have to go for the IVH because its smaller, making it not only harder to hit, but also makes it easier to manoeuvre in tight packs and squeeze down alleyways etc, whereas the bigger 34/85 is a bit clumsier to throw around..

PS -and the IVH has a fast turret but the 34/85's is slow (edit-except for the Model 44 (late) which has a fast turret).
The IVH is therefore like a nimbler lightweight boxer all round AND its punch can easily demolish the 34/85 except at longer ranges..

[Lord Bane]

POS...you have chosen....not wisely.
Bane