• Blitz Shadow Player
  • Caius
  • redboot
  • Rules
  • Chain of Command
  • Members
  • Supported Ladders & Games
  • Downloads


The Coil vs. Goliath - An Idiot's Guide to Beating Players Waaaay Better Than You...
03-06-2008, 02:58 PM,
#1
The Coil vs. Goliath - An Idiot's Guide to Beating Players Waaaay Better Than You...
Been posting the flip side of CT's DAR over at WaW, thought I'd also post it here, just so's you'll have it in the same place if you wanted to read both sides without having to jump between websites...

I shall point out that if you are any part of the multi-headed ELO monster that is [colonel]Letovela, you should get your nosy little self out of my thread...
Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2008, 02:59 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-06-2008, 04:43 PM by The Coil.)
#2
RE: The Coil vs. Goliath - An Idiot's Guide to Beating Players Waaaay Better Than You...
So here's the story - I'm playing [hirr]Leto (pronounced her lie toe, because it annoys him when you do) and Colonel Talvela (pronounced kol own el tall fella) in a mirrored QB. Same parameters in each battle, Leto is Axis in one, CT is Allies in the other. I figure if I beat them both, my place in CM immortality is secured, inasmuch as they have the #1 and #2 ELO spots at the Blitz (barring McIvan reporting that game). The astute among you may spot the flaw in this plan, in that I suck at CM, wheres Leto and CT are really good, and so I have a chance of winning that is not exactly zero, but very, very near it. Still, statisticians will tell you (if you ever talk to statisticians, which I don't - I never seem to run into them on social occasions) that if you are gambling and the odds are against you, your statistically smartest move is to gamble your entire stake on one spin of the wheel, turn of the card, roll of the dice, or ummm...fight of the quick battle. As the case may be. However, if I do happen to win (think Miracle on Ice), I will achieve instant CM immortality and refuse to ever play the game again, thus going out at the pinnacle of my CM "career," in much the same way that Michael Jordan didn't.

On the way, I'll provide you with this brief guide to playing against people way better than you, and pulling off a win. If I win, you'll think I'm a genius and try to copy my every move. If I lose, you'll point and laugh and be entertained for a few minutes. Either way you come out ahead...

Here's the battle:
2000pt meeting engagement, farmland, small hills, moderate trees, overcast (no planes for me, thanks), 30+ turns, Italy, June '44 (no Hetzers either, thanks...).

CT and Leto are both a whole lot better than me (even though I beat CT in a draw once, but it was luck, trust me). How do I know they're way better? Read their posts...they're always saying things like "Well, the [insert name of infantry type] squad in '45 only has 8 men, and it's lacking a bit in the LMG department, so you're really better off with [insert name of other infantry type]" or "the [tank name that just looks like a bunch of meaningless numbers and letters to me] has frequent flaws in the upper hull so if you shoot at it from a 42 degree angle you can often penetrate it". Whereas when I pick my forces, I'm usually thinking more along the lines of "afklarungs sure is a funny word - I wonder what it means. I'll take a battalion of them and find out".

Now, there's a couple things you can do when you're playing someone much better than you that can help level the playing field. Keep these handy tips in mind, and you have a chance:

Handy Tip #1:

Call up Brian McNamee, tell him to bring over the Large Livestock Syringe. Do not mention anything to Andy Pettitte about it.

Handy Tip #2:

Call up McIvan. See if he'll play the game for you (this handy tip submitted by [hirr]Leto - it's actually not a bad idea).

If you don't know McNamee, and McIvan refuses to do it (he will probably mumble something about "ethics" or some other such lame excuse), follow handy tip #3:

Handy Tip #3 (this is an actual handy tip)

Do not pick a balanced bunch of forces. This is not the time to be Mr. Combined Arms Advocate. Leto and CT are both masters of handling balanced (slightly infantry heavy, even) forces. If I tried to go toe to toe with them with a similar force, they'd pick me apart in no time. They've played hundreds of games against people who take your standard couple companies and a platoon of tanks, maybe an arty spotter, and a gun or two. If I try to play that game, I got no chance. Key for me is to throw something unexpected at them. The wackier it is, the less chance they have of having seen it before, the less advantage they have, the better for me. Strange force picks, unorthodox strategy, bizarre tactics are the order of the day (within reason - picking all tank hunters would be strange, but also stupid. Give me some credit).

With that in mind, here's my basic pick against CT (if I remember right):

2 platoons of panzer IVHs
1 platoon of Stugs
1 coy FJs
I think that's it...

What the heck?!? you say. You have no chance, Mr. Coil, you say. Here's my logic: CT will bring a fairly infantry heavy force, maybe some M10s, or a platoon of Priests for the HE, or something like that. CT (and Leto) are both big fans of "infantry wins ball games," and they are, in general, right. But it's real hard for infantry to move if there's unopposed armor around. My strategy is going to be full-on flag rush, drop the FJs on the flags, whack any armor CT did bring, and keep the infantry at bay with my now unopposed armor. He might plink a few tanks, especially if he has a couple AT guns with decent LOS at the start. But he's careful and methodical enough that I can beat him to the flags, and he'll have a heck of a time uprooting the FJs with all my armor about. That's the theory, anyway. Don't mock it until I lose...

Against Leto, my strategy is a little different:

2 platoons M10s
2 rifle coys
1 Priest
Some other random stuff that I can't remember...

With Leto, my theory is a bit different. He's onto my "bring extreme force picks" strategy, and also my "bring the infantry up slowly and late" general tactics, so I'm giving him a little different look. I'm going to try to make it look like I brought a normal force pick for once, but act in my emails (go read the email psy-ops article, if you haven't) like I'm bringing a way AFV heavy force, hoping Leto will see through my email act and think he has figured me out, and that I really have a fairly balanced force for once. I'll let him see one platoon of TDs, keep the other one hidden, and hope I spring it on him by surprise on his flank after he's figured I just brought the one platoon. If you follow all that. Couple that with a quick flag rush (if Leto has a weakness, it's that he's slow to on the flags sometimes), and I hope I can keep him off balance enough to sneak a win.

That's the plan for now, anyway. Haven't seen the maps yet, so it's subject to change. I'll keep a running "summary DAR" going as the battle progress - probably won't be able to keep up turn-by-turn on two games, but will give a general summary every ten turns or so.

Let's [hirr] it for the underdog!
Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2008, 03:05 PM,
#3
RE: The Coil vs. Goliath - An Idiot's Guide to Beating Players Waaaay Better Than You...
Turn 0 - The Setup
Finally got the first turn back from Leto and CT - took 'em a week to pick their units. This means either:

1) They have been trying to guess my password for the last few days (I guess they never thought to try "drevakrulz!").
2) They are scared silly at the possibility of being publicly humiliated.
3) They are putting a LOT of thought into their picks, and will come with the perfect force to pick me apart and destroy my little pixel-boys (which I picked in about 15 minutes, btw) by turn 13.

(Smart money is on option #3, by the way, but change "turn 13" to "turn 4")

Anyway, here's what the maps look like, and my basic strategy going forward:

Colonel T

[Image: CT-setup.jpg]

Now, I'd just like to point out something about this map. It is "farmland". It's definitely "farmland" - I just double checked. The obsevant among you will notice there are no fields. None at all. We're apparently fighting over the least arable land in all of Italy. We'll be doing the civvies a favor if we blow up their houses - then maybe they can move somewhere (like Leto's map) where you can actually grow crops.

Anyway, I like this map. Two flags, close together, some decent covered approaches. Pretty much following the script on this one - two platoons of panzers, mounting FJs, rush the flags, shoot up everything in sight. This map is good, because I only have to cover one area in the middle, not two flags on opposite sides of the map. Going to have one big fighting clot o' armor in the center of the map...

Q: What about being flanked, Mr. Coil. Does that worry you, what with all your guys in the middle, and the map edges open?

A: Nope. Flanking is overrated, IMHO. Especially in tank fights. Don't get me wrong, if you can show up on the other guys flank and front at the same time, you can wax him. But the timing is hard to pull off, and you can usually position your armor so it's covered from one side or the other. Plus with the fast turrets and such, it's not as big of an issue. Let him flank. I should point out, I've got a half squad on each map edge, so I'll see him coming. A sneaky, unspotted flank attack is a different story...

Where I do get worried is if CT has a bunch of guns in the right places (there's a few spots pretty deep on his side that would be very nice gun positions...). I got some mortars positioned to take out a few likely ones, but a couple guns could make short work of the tank pack. Other thing that could suck is big arty. All my boys are going to be huddled in one spot in the middle of the map. A big arty barrage could be very bad...

All in all, though, I feel pretty decent about this map - I've got a pretty good run to the flags, and some decent places to hide when I get there. Certainly feeling better about this one than...

Leto's map

[Image: Leto-setup-1.jpg]

About the best thing I can say for this map is, "at least it has farmland". Other than that, I'm not liking it. Leto has way better overwatch spots - there's a few places (I don't think they're actually in his setup zone, but they're close) where a 150mm could murder me. Or arty. Or a big 'ol Panther or something. I have kinda exposed runs to the flags, and the one big one on the left is going to be tough - he has covered approaches, I've got to cross open ground to get there.

Here's where I make a bold, strategic decision... Notice there are three flags, big one on the left, big one on the right, small one a bit further right. I'm sticking with the basic plan - get on the flags quick with the infantry, get the first M10 platoon up front, hold back the 2nd M10 platoon. But I plan to ignore the left flag almost totally. Here's why: I doubt I can get it without throwing a lot of stuff at it, including big HE (which I don't have). If I can keep the other two flags, I still come out on top in flag points 400 - 300. I figure Leto will have a decent portion of his forces on that flag - I can concentrate my entire force on the other two, hopefully having local firepower superiority (figure Leto splits his force between the two flags, it's 50%-0% on the flag I gave up, 100%-50% on the other side, where I can hopefully KO half his force in a hurry).

Now, I'm not totally giving up the flag - there's a holding force (a platoon split into half squads to look bigger than it is, a couple mgs and a mortar or two) that will keep Leto from swinging right through the flag and coming to help his (hopefully) outnumbered boys on the other side of the map. That's the theory, anyway. Feeling less good about this map, though. Too many things could go wrong for me, and Leto's probably too good to not take advantage of any of them. Little more margin for error, though, in that I have a lot more infantry in this one than the other.
Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2008, 03:06 PM,
#4
RE: The Coil vs. Goliath - An Idiot's Guide to Beating Players Waaaay Better Than You...
CT - Turn 2

Off go my tanks in the direction of the flags (turns out there're 3 flags - little one between the big 2 that I forgot about - doesn't really change much). Turn 2 starts with the flags showing as American - an ominous sign...

A few of CTs tanks on a back hill drop smoke around the left-most flag, and on my way in I start picking up sound contacts all over the flags...looks like CT went with the flag rush (I was hoping he'd be a little slower on the flags, but that's what happens when you try to extrapolate someone's meeting engagement strategy from the tactics they used in the one other game you played them in, which was, by the way, an attack/defend...oh well). My boys had a few movement orders plotted on their run to the flags to take advantage of cover, so the 20-30 sec delay before starting off led to CT arriving first on a straight line path to the flags.

I've seen so far:

2 tank sound contacts on the hill firing smoke
1 British personnel carrier thingie on the left most flag
2-3 sound contacts (tanks) around the flags
One convoy o' fun coming up the middle - 2 TDs, 2 HTs (one towing a gun), and 2 Stuarts (really? Stuarts? I'm guessing they're mis-ID'ed, but maybe CT is coming at me with Stuarts).

It'd be sweet coming out of this on top, taking out a bunch of armor...I've got 3 tanks aimed up on the convoy, my other boys swarming forward. I also kick the Stugs into high gear to bring them into the fray. No sense holding on to them as a reserve if the big armor slugfest is going to happen on turn 2...

Here's where it ends:

[Image: CT2.jpg]

It going to be a mess in a hurry, methinks. I hope he doesn't get too many zooks/PIATs into those woods, or it'll be a mess. My 4 tanks on the left are engaging the convoy, my 2 in the middle and 4 on the right are looking for good firing positions into his other armor. The FJs are scattered - some clinging to their tanks, some brushed off by MG fire. So much for that plan, but they'll all hit cover and just have to fight their way forward a bit...
Quote this message in a reply
03-06-2008, 03:08 PM,
#5
RE: The Coil vs. Goliath - An Idiot's Guide to Beating Players Waaaay Better Than You...
CT - turn 3

Ready for some classic CM meeting engagement action, with two armored forces clashing in the center, tanks everywhere, infantry AT units being dropped off in the woods, a toe-to-toe slugfest in the works! In eager anticipation, I load up this turn, ready to see if I lop CT's armored head off and seal my victory on turn 3, or if my tanks get the worst of it, leaving me to a furious fight with my survivors. My panzers on the right face off against CT's platoon moving in the open toward the flag. My boys in the center sneak in for some flank shots, and to try to pick off those sound contacts. My guys on the left move forward through the smoke to engage CT's APCs dropping off AT units around the flag. What will happen????

[Image: CT3.jpg]

Much sound and fury...signifying nothing...(and no "tale told by an idiot jokes, please...).

My panzers aimed up on CT's convoy fire...and miss. His TDs return fire as they continue forward...and miss. Meanwhile, CT drops off a PIAT right by my tanks. My panzers fire at the APC...and miss. My panzers on the right fire off a second salvo at the convoy...and...wait for it...HIT! A partial turret penetration, no damage. CT's boys fire back...and miss. CT's APC skitters back out of sight. The PIAT pops up in a building mere meters from my tank, and fires off a shot...and misses. A last few shots as the convoys slides out of sight behind the tree-covered hill...miss, miss, and miss. I'd whine for a bit about it, if CT's boys weren't shooting as bad as mine. Time to go back to gunnery school, boys...
Quote this message in a reply
03-07-2008, 04:22 PM,
#6
RE: The Coil vs. Goliath - An Idiot's Guide to Beating Players Waaaay Better Than You...
Ok, real quick, everyone sneak over to CT's thread and give it a one-star rating while he's not looking. Trust me, it'll be fun. I'll wait here til you get back.
Quote this message in a reply
03-07-2008, 04:39 PM,
#7
RE: The Coil vs. Goliath - An Idiot's Guide to Beating Players Waaaay Better Than You...
Turns 4-6 or so...

A bunch of stuff happens...I pop CTs tank, he pops mine. I sneak forward, he brings infantry up. He shoots at me. I shoot at him. If you want to know the details, read it in CT's DAR, he pretty much knows where most of my boys are at this point.

The relevant points are: He's got his infantry coming up the back side of the slope towards the small flag, with some armor tucked behind the trees, my tanks and FJs are on the other side of said slope, trying to figure out what to do before they die in the "Hail of a 1000 PIATs". I'm feeling decent at this point.

Remember, agressive is the name of the game. My tanks on the left get orders to shoot forward over the hill, cover arcs to the right so their turrents will be poised to shoot right at CTs armor, which I'm hoping is facing the wrong way as I come around the corner.

Rest of my armor is headed left, to get in position around the right side of the hill, and plink his armor from behind in a couple turns as his tanks turn to face my boys coming over the hill.

So that brings us to turn 7. At this point I'm feeling pretty good. The feeling shall not last. The turn starts, things shoot at other things. My tanks shoot forward. Too far apart, got the delays wrong. Dang. They're going to go forward one at a time around the corner into CTs armor pack. Then, I notice the really big problem. Stupid, stupid, stupid. asdlg iear anorwio hm jhmjk (The Coil mashing his head on the keyboard...).

It's time to play "Spot the ridiculous idiotic thing The Coil did that will cost him plenty." (I circled the problem areas, as a little hint...

[Image: CT4.jpg]

I cleverly set the cover arcs so my boys' turrets would be facing right at CT's armor as they came into LOS. But I was worried about armor in overwatch, so I set the cover arcs big and wide. So big and wide that I went a bit over 180 degrees on a few of them, and the arcs flipped sides. I did this while I was very tired, and didn't notice. Grrrr....

First tank gets popped. The second ends the turn with a TD aimed up on him and his turret faced in the exact wrong direction. Ungood - going to throw away a tank, and the chance to pop one of CTs. CT is too good to be making silly mistakes against.

What's worse, his infantry is hitting the flag zones in force. This is very bad. I took too long getting up here, got timid when I saw him beat me to the flags, and now I've let him move up too many guys. Should've kept the panzers coming up quicker, but what're you going to do... Of course, he's probably got a few guns up behind him, so that might've hurt me worse...

I was feeling good up until this turn...not so much any more - he's got the upper hand, I'm afraid...
Quote this message in a reply
03-08-2008, 03:52 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-08-2008, 03:54 PM by The Coil.)
#8
RE: The Coil vs. Goliath - An Idiot's Guide to Beating Players Waaaay Better Than You...
Turn 9

Okay, quick update. My infantry are at the back of the woods around the flags, in various states of getting pummeled. I lost 2 more panzers last turn, not even sure what got 'em - these are the perils of going armor heavy. My panzers are creeping up behind the hill, I've kicked my Stugs at the back of the map into high gear to enter the fray, I've pulled my Grille into position to throw HE at the forward small flag (did I mention the Grille yet? I think I forgot about it when talking about kit selection. I have a Grille. There, now you're up to speed).

Here's an overview of the middle, where most of the action is:

[Image: CT5-overviewT9.jpg]

You can see my panzers, now in 2 basic groups on either side of the small flag (what's left of them), CT has a cluster of armor behind that little wooded hill.

I would like to point out at this point, for the learner among you, that the best way to play this game is to come with plenty of infantry and keep your armor well back in support. Leto and CT, as I've said, are generally right - infantry wins ball games. If you bring almost all armor, you'll generally get it popped piecemeal by infantry and your opponent's AFVs, which have an easier time picking up targets with infantry spotting for them. That's the way it looks like this is going to go...

If you opt to go armor heavy, you've got to play them aggressive, because you'll never dig all the infantry out with your lame-o spotting ability and limtied HE supply (even if it's a big HE supply, it's limited...) My biggest mistake here is trying to play the aggressive game, then chickening out once a panzer or two got popped. Should've kept pushing forward quicker - might've got wiped up, but I'd have had a chance. Now that my advance has bogged down, I think about pulling back, letting the HE do the work, and getting some space between me and CT's inf. Reasonable decision, right-o? Maybe. But then I think better of it. I came to play aggressive, I'm going to play aggressive...I give the panzers orders to leap forward on either side of the tree-covered hill, with cover arcs CAREFULLY set to turn my guns toward CT's armor clot (2 TDs, 2 Stuarts, and an HT, as far as I can tell). Meanwhile, the Grille area fires on the flag as the Stugs take up position on a rise in the back, and a mortar drops rounds on a patch of woods by the M10s to try to panic them. What follows is a very strange turn...
Quote this message in a reply
03-08-2008, 03:57 PM,
#9
RE: The Coil vs. Goliath - An Idiot's Guide to Beating Players Waaaay Better Than You...
Right out of the gate, things look ugly. 5 seconds in, I get a panzer waxed.

[Image: CT6-5s2panzersdie.jpg]

I think by an M10 behind the hill. But I couldn't really tell. That will be a common theme for this turn.

Then, my Grille fires up on the flag, providing some much needed HE support...

[Image: CT7-7sGrillemisfire.jpg]

Lands a shell right next to my beleagured FJs. Super... I start reaching for the surrender button, as I can see where this is headed. Then, the magic starts happening...
Quote this message in a reply
03-08-2008, 04:09 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-08-2008, 05:06 PM by The Coil.)
#10
RE: The Coil vs. Goliath - An Idiot's Guide to Beating Players Waaaay Better Than You...
Now, I have watched this turn many times, from many angles. I still can't figure out what the heck happened:

[Image: CT822sexplodingStuart.jpg]

For reasons I can't explain, CTs Stuart blows up. Nothing was shooting at it. Nothing was shooting near it. Except a mortar (which you can see going off in the trees next to it). I know treebursts can sometimes get light armor, but never seen it blow something up like that. Maybe some CMSF code got snuck into the game, and a car-bomb went off or something. Anyway, I'm open to a little deus ex machina - I'm not proud.

Then, my panzers on the left crest the hill, and aim up on CTs M10, which appears to be driving around trying to get away from the mortar rounds (open tops = bad, which bodes poorly for the game vs. Leto).

[Image: CT938sTDdies.jpg]

Scratch one TD. Then I notice the other TD bailed, probably as a result of the Stuart explosion. The perils of thin-skinned armor when it's packed tight.
Looks like maybe the HT is gone too, and the other Stuart maybe shocked. I end the turn with a panzer on the right aimed up at the last Stuart...

Meanwhile, another Stuart appears on the hill on the far right (I think that's what sniped a panzer earlier), and one of his little Brit recon cars goes skittering after my Grille, no doubt trying for a rear MG shot...

[Image: CT1060sAPCvGrille.jpg]

I'll not spin to face him, as CT is probably expecting that. Next turn, he gets reverse orders, hopefully causing CT to overshoot, while the Stugs angle for a shot on him.

Crazy turn. My panzers are waaaay too far forward, and potentially in trouble next turn, but it's nice to have leveled so much armor in one turn, even if I'm not sure how it happened. Have you ever played NBA JAM, the arcade game? Remember how if one guy got ahead, there was a feature that would kick in where it would keep the score close, so the guy behind could pretty much hit any shot from anywhere until he caught up? That's what this turn felt like...
Quote this message in a reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 6 Guest(s)