What makes a good CM QB Map?

[Copper]

Today Wigam and I rattled out 2 small random pick QB's. We each took a turn at defending and the maps were truly appalling.... the defenders housed up in 'houses' in my case and in his case lining the woods and the odd dotted building sitting in the middle of nowhere. In both cases the attackers had to advance across open ground. In Wigams attack the battle lasted 6 turns as I systematically tore his troops apart as they advanced under a hail of mortar and MG42 fire. In my attack thanks to better troop pick I was able to scratch out a tactical victory.

IMO I would rather the computer used pre-made maps to play on rather than the debacles it foists on us. Wigam and I didn't mind as we only play these games as a back drop to our conversations about plans for the CM area of the Blitz.

However, I think from here on in I will be using pre made maps.

So in your opinion what makes a good pre made map.

I personally think several points are important.

• Several routes of advance.
  I hate it when my opponent looks at the map and goes... ok if he has armour that is the only route he can take.
  
  
• Room to manoeuvre.
  You dont want to be restricted on having to take on a defence head on. Room to flank is nice.
  
  
• Realistic objectives/flag position.
  Nothing bugs me more than the victory flag/battlefield objective being the middle of an empty field... WTF is that supposed to represent. I believe objectives should be hills/road junctions/buildings.
  
  
• Realistic road network.
  Again another pet hate. Roads that just end. Roads that dont go via the natural lay of the land and arch up onto hills with wild slopes that would be a challenge to Sir Hilary... never mind a 1940's vehicle.
  
  
• Realistic contours.
  This ties in with the above one. Houses built on tops of little cliffs with no access. Roads that buck and bend like someone has picked it up and given it a shake, especially if it leads to a bridge and your vehicles cant cross because of the dodgy lie of the land.
  

Opinions.

[RedDevil]

Hey... you spelled maneuver wrong... :P

I think the best thing about the random Ai junk maps is their unpredictability.. no one ever knew where the battle would be fought at and all that planning about fighting them in the alleys is mute when the enemy engages and smashes thru your lines in the vineyards instead..

I don't disagree that the AI makes HORRIBLE maps tho, but I much prefer them over previewed battlefields where the ability to plan beforehand and buy what fits the area is optimal.

I applaud the fellas out there making QB maps for the players who agree with you Bootie tho, and do vow to try some of them in the sense that variety is indeed the best kind of wargaming :)

[Copper]

To be honest it is Ratzki who is doing the majority of the work. His maps are good. If anyone else makes or sees a map they like add it to the map section.

[fluidwill]

I dont play much (any really) qb but was discussing with my long time opp macnab (hi pete) how we like maps with "the school house" "town hall" or whatevr written on which some how helps with the immersion
"less like an arcade game" being pete's exact phrase IIRC

[Phil Davies (FGM)]

I only ever play QB's really, because of the random maps they are not all that bad IMO. I have had many great battles fought on them and there is no chance of any previewing of the map. The random QB map is one of the great features which is missing out of Shock Farce and to be honest it's the only feature which has kept me playing CM for so long.

[Copper]

Good point Fluidwill... its all about fleshing out the bones aint it.

[Jobu88]

But in the AI's defense, sometimes it gets the map right. I have just finished a game with Extraordinarius that I thought had an interesting map. Realistic roads, plenty of room, etc.

But I agree that too many times a QB is ruined before it even starts by a poor map.

[Combat Wombat]

in a way using a pre-made map reflects what many real life comanders would be doing prior to engagment - scoping the ground, reviewing their intel and looking for any advantage the terrain could offer in the upcoming engagement. Granted the detail in a CM map is greater than what you would get in a paper map , but a least you have an idea of what lies ahead, objectives, obstacles , distances etc.

Personally , I would love to get my hands on more ME maps that have a great mixture of rural an urban. Also guys, maybe we all should have a go at putting a map together and insert them in the Maps Section ? consider it part of our commitment to the club , just an idea..? :)

[Ratzki]

It was mentioned in the first post about the size of the map. What would be a reasonable size, that you feel would give some elbow room to move around on?
Also, even with some maps that you feel are too big, you can load them in the editor and chop bits off from both ends and come up with a size that fits the battle. Or put some "landmark" asterisks* on the map and agree to not move outside the borders marked. This solves the tank or squad retreating off the map by accident.

[Mad Baron]

This is a great thread, and I want to read through it better tomorrow, but I would just say, it only recently dawned on me that a QB map can be ''viewed and approved'' by the game setter-upper beforehand.

I haven't done this myself, and never would. But I tested the idea recently, and it works. When a player sets a QB game up, he can then save it, open it as the other side, select a couple enemy units, then save it again, etc., and then view the map....or something like this. Before he decides to send the original setup along, using different file names during the process. Anyway, he is able to see a QB game map before he actually selects one to be sent to the actual opponent.

(Once he likes a map, he can send the original set-up on to his opponent. It will be the same map he has already ''approved.'')

So, a QB-generated map is not necessarily a surprise map to both sides....

(Maybe I'm just paranoid because I know the German Enigma code got compromised in WW2....!?) :conf:

However, confirm this with Bletchley Park...! ;)

(Perhaps this might be another reason established Scenarios are a better/more accurate test of Player abilities??)