First impression report Attacking disrupted units

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Actually the assault rules aren't really new. Assaults now work the way they did back with the original EF.

Hawk, so does this mean that the 'new' assault rules (apart from the obvious non-combat bug) are now currently reflecting what Charlie Kibler and Bob MacNamara originally intended?

cheers

Yes the 1.03 assault rules give me this feel as you describe!

I uncorked my EF disk loaded it and played around a bit today. It seems that the 1.03 patch has made assaults very similiar to the original design intent.

Now I will say I am (or was) a big user of disrupt / surround / capture and despite the fact that my play will have to be radically altered I am not put off by the new (old) assault rules.

Thanx!

Glad the boys decided to "improve" the game by changing it back to the one that was abandoned and replaced by Talonsoft almost ten years ago?

Ed

[Valor]

I wanted to wait with comments after some more extensive playing, but when i have found the thread saying First impression... lets make it first impression.

In my opinion (at this moment) it's not worth the effort it was put in. Of course the previous rules allowing the disrupted 6SP SS Pzgr Pltn being captured by two squads of Carrier Rifles were a bit out of lane. The same with pack of disrupted Panthers captured by some HTs...

But now, I believe we went a bit too far in this new one :chin:

On the other hand it's still possible to keep different downloads and so on... but as more and more people move to Vista (they don't sell new comps with older systems :hissy: ) the Talonsoft's disks will be covered with dust.

The solution for me is to make it optional.

One can ask how many things do they want to have it optional? :conf:

My answer is as many as possible. I remember playing old Tiller's Battleground series. There were at least 7 - 8 different optional checkboxes, so after initial sorting it out everyone would be happy.

That will also solve the problem here.

Any major change in game mechanics should be made optional

Thank you for your attention

Best regards

Slawek

[Big Dawg]

I played the EFII scenario A Complete Surprise against the AI.

There were 2 assault situations that occurred during the 1st 3 turns...

I had 2 full strength (6 each) engineer units assault a disrupted 4 point rifle infantry unit and it was repulsed. There are not many scenarios where you have 2 engineer units together.

I had a full strength German infantry unit (6 points) assault a single 2 point 45 cal AT gun alone in a improved hex. It also was repulsed.

It was always hard for me to make successful assaults, but now it is almost too much.

[Valor]

I had 2 full strength (6 each) engineer units assault a disrupted 4 point rifle infantry unit and it was repulsed. There are not many scenarios where you have 2 engineer units together.

I had a full strength German infantry unit (6 points) assault a single 2 point 45 cal AT gun alone in a improved hex. It also was repulsed.

As I can believe that at some point very inspired and determined infantry platoon (even disrupted) can repulse almost every assault - they would rather be killed to the last man... it happened in history, and it may happen in the game... but the two 45mm AT guns? What they did? Thrown bricks on attacking infantry? :smoke:

I would really leave that new assault rules as optional. Those who like it will play it, those who don't will not check the box...

And of course the trucks, leaders and guns "feature" should be fixed :P

Best regards

Slawek

[Hawk Kriegsman]

I believe that their is an acknowledge assault glitch with respect to units with a zero assault factor. This would explain the leader, truck, wagon, artillery, et all issue.

As for me I assaulted a german engineer platoon and panzer grenadier platoon (of unknown strength). They were in a trench in a forest hex.

My forces were a 5SP Russian infanty (1942), a 5SP SMG platoon and a 6SP SMG platoon and I had a 1 rated leader.

I also was assaulting up hill.

I got repulsed. No effects all around.

Was I surprised? Yes initially, sure who wouldn't have been.

But is that a realistic result? Yes I think it is. I really did not have a problem with the result. It made sense to me.

I think we need to wait a bit and see what Matrix has to say on the assault issue.

Thanx!

[Chuck10mtn]

Hi All,
1st let me start by saying that I suck at the game so all my PBEM oppenents will still win. I have said before on the site to make change just because you can isn't alaways good. The game is way more complicated than it was ever intended to be. Everytime somebody wants a new unit they mention it here and the next patch its there. Lets remembere its all about LUCK of the dice roll and the more luck that you put into a game the more unrealistic it will become. Building walls,minefields, bridges and everything else adds more dice rolls to the mix. Did the old surround and automatically capture a disrupt unit seem fair no, I think the new is more real than old. (except the couple of glaring mistakes)
As Ed has stated in this post is building a bridge in 6min possible no, but each person has to realize that everybody else has their own wish list for what should be in the new patch. Jason and the crew try to make everybody happy and as long as everybody is playing the same version then I'm happy. I'm sure that I'll see a dozen scns where people say the new assult rules make the game impossible to win, but should there be only one way to win a scenario?? Lets play with the new rules for a couple of months and see what happens. Change is what got us to this point so lets not jump first and think later.
Do I like the older game better yes, but I'm willing to give the changes a chance before saying lets throw them its the scrap pile. I haven't been on the site for long but I've played the game since the very 1st East Front came out. Every patch, fix and addition has been pain at first but I'm still playing the game and having fun with it.

Chuck

[Glint]

I'm sure there are plenty of players out there who, obvious bugs eliminated, look forward to playing the Matrix version.
I have read the matrix debates and the blitz, overall, I like the addition of various engineers, hidden at guns, etc.
When I bought WF Gold and EF11, I had to learn how best to play it and the same will apply to the Matrix version, just a new challenge.
Give the ME a chance, a few days of trying it out isn't fair on the efforts of the BETA team, constructive reports on problems is ok, I don't think blatant lamblasting of the game is in anyway constructive, even disrespectful?
Well done Jason and the team, don't lose heart, - hey, the 'bouncing bomb' had many unsuccessful trials, but it blew the dam up in the end!
regards
Peter

[Huib Versloot]

I had 2 full strength (6 each) engineer units assault a disrupted 4 point rifle infantry unit and it was repulsed. There are not many scenarios where you have 2 engineer units together.

I had a full strength German infantry unit (6 points) assault a single 2 point 45 cal AT gun alone in a improved hex. It also was repulsed.

As I can believe that at some point very inspired and determined infantry platoon (even disrupted) can repulse almost every assault - they would rather be killed to the last man... it happened in history, and it may happen in the game... but the two 45mm AT guns? What they did? Thrown bricks on attacking infantry? :smoke:

I would really leave that new assault rules as optional. Those who like it will play it, those who don't will not check the box...

And of course the trucks, leaders and guns "feature" should be fixed :P

Best regards

Slawek

Well thats about 30 men against 2 guns and their crews in an improved position. Also with the new rules the infantry will always win in this case, it just may take 2 turns instead of 1. Is that so bad?
I'm glad guns are a little stronger now, takes away the lone scoutcar overrunning artillery battery after artillery battery in 1 turn.... Now THAT was realistic...

[Von Earlmann]

There may be glitches in the assault rule which as has been said before can be fixed. Let's do a little history lesson. When EF originally came out the assault rules were similar to what they are now. Units did nit have to be disrupted and wether they were or nor the assualt might work or not depending on the odds,factors and tables.Then Talonsoft came out with EF II and all of a sudden a unit that was not disrupted was virtually impossible to take out. I still remember my shock at assaulting a 4 sp rifle platoon with 3 MKIV full strength platoons in the open (where the tank is still king) and being repulsed. This feature was in fact shoved down our throats by Talonsoft. There were a lot of complaints (on deaf ears I might ad) and a lot of us myself included almost quit. I stuck it out but to this day I hate the rule that everyone else assumes was the original. Give it a chance guys.

There were a few men in a small mission in Texas that repulsed assults for about 13 days.I like the uncertainty of things....kind of like real life....one never knows what might happen :-)

VE

[Von Earlmann]

Big Dawg

The AI cheats!................:-)