Dealing with Russian SMG troops in CMBB

[Der Kuenstler]

This is a picture no one wants to see in a PBEM game - your men are in a thick bunch of woods and stumble upon a Russian SMG platoon. These guys usually come in squads of nine and all carry the dreaded PPSh SMG. Though their ammo load is only 25, the fire is so devastating at close range that it usually more than enough to do the job.

You will be able to recognize SMG troops by the distinctive "B-r-r-r-r-t" sound they make and the way your entire squads panic or turn into dead man icons instantly.

While a Panzergrenadier squad in 1945 might have a FP of 189 up close, the Russian SMG squad has a FP of 450! How do you deal with these guys?

Well, the most effective thing you can do is don't put yourself in a position to have to fight them in their element. You don't want to be fighting Russians on a map chock full of summer heavy trees - you will probably lose. Don't fight on a map like that. What you want if you are fighting Russians is a more open map - with scattered trees and meadows. Then the Germans will be able to use their longer range rifle platoons against the SMG platoons, whose FP drops off considerably after 100 meters or so. If you are on a map of mixed terrain, and there are three flags, and one of the flags is in the middle of thick woods, by all means, let his SMG troops have that flag and go for the other two in more open terrain.

What if you are in a position where you have to fight them? You want to get them in a position where they are pinned - then they aren't shooting at you. And the next step from pinned is panic. Here are some ideas:

- Have a +2 command and +2 heart platoon leader if possible
- 50mm mortars - they have a shorter range and if your platoon leader is strong they can drop HE on top of the enemy and this will pin them much quicker.
- Keep your squads spread at least 25m apart - then enemy fire can't hurt multiple squads.
- Bring multiple shooters from different directions. Troops take a huge morale hit when fired on from behind.
- HE chuckers - fire them into the woods first
- Artillery - drop it on them first.
- pioneers - their demo charges can really disrupt
- Further emphasis - outnumber them. Do not take one platoon into the woods to fight one SMG platoon - take a whole company if possible.
- MG42 HMGs - you can get them up where they are close enough to area fire at the SMG troops or let them set up just behind your fighting platoon and then when the platoon gets shot up and runs, the HMGs will be ready to blast the pursuing Russians.
- Retreat your men back to the edge of the offending patch of woods where they can be supported by your 251/1s and tank mgs in the open behind them - when the smg troops pursue they will get more fire than they can handle.
- Be very fast and get into the woods first - then you can fire out of the woods into open areas and hopefully ambush them.
- Play during times in the war when you can get your own SMG troops. (But these still won't be as good as the Russians have - so be careful)

Any other ideas?

[PoorOldSpike]

No wonder the Russians put up statues to those guys..;)

[Bert Blitzkrieg]

- Flamethrowers (especially the armoured ones) work very well too against SMG squads (or any other squad for that matter !:smoke:).
- All the support weapons (like the 251/1) should be out of LOS to russian heavy weapons/armour. So prepare your attack well: patience, don't rush them and/or your attack !

[Ratzki]

I agree, you cannot fight them in good cover and win, but if you can get them to move to the edge of cover where a machinegun or two from a good distance can work them over and keep them pinned, you can get in there with some squads and work 'em over at close quarters. You should try to always gain superiority in as many ways as you can, cover, firepower, movement, or numbers. The big thing is to deny them movement and keep them out of the fight. Sometimes the best attack is not to attack but hem them in, and so they might get a flag, if they can move no farther and stay out of their 100m range, then they are effectively removed from the fight with little or no great expenditure of ammunition or men. An HMG from an effective distance can keep them from moving from cover to cover, you can then concentrate on the other flags with the extra men you gained from not having to fight with the SMG squads.

[JasonC]

It is actually the 7 man mech version of the SMG squads that are most common and convenient. The 9 man variety only comes in whole companies and 9 SMGs is overkill anyway. The 7 man mech version gives you 25 SMG men for only 77 points. There are German counters but most of them cost 3-4 times as much, and can't go the distance against that kind of cheap.

Here are the solutions that actually work. First, understand there are two ways you run across SMGs, up and back positions. Up means they have LOS into open ahead of the terrain they are defending, and even with 80m arcs can deny you some pieces of terrain or movement routes you'd like to use - in addition to the location they are sitting on. Back means so deep in the woods you basically can't see them from outside, or behind a crest, on in the backside of buildings. The intent being to force the engagement to take place at 40 meter range or less.

Counters to Up SMGs -

Pz II Flamm - just drive right up to them buttoned.
SPW 251/2 and +command HQ - one minute of fire each, then an MG takes over to maintain the pin. SPW is in defilade, HQ is out of SMG range.
150mm sIG - enough said
2 HMG 42s at 150 meter ranges - just contain them and hose one or two at the front, as needed.

Those all cost less than the SMGs themselves, and will neutralize or contain them, or drive them to back positions to avoid lopsided loss.

Other counters that cost more, but managably so -

1 StuH - enough said
Panzer Grenadier platoon plus 2 HMGs at 125 meters - will break them if they stay in up positions, but concentrate the fire and be fast. Your ammo depth isn't great. Hit for one minute with the whole platoon, then leave an MG on that one and shift to the next.
105mm FO, half a module - works on woods. Don't use the whole thing or they win the exchange on points

Those tactics will drive them into back positions. Once you have driven them into back positions, here is how you deal with them.

You don't. Laugh and them and go take the rest of the map. Leave an MG or MG-armed light armored vehicle covering open routes out of their lair, and then flat ignore them. I don't care if they are on a flag. Go kill the rest of the Russian force.

Simple.

[Der Kuenstler]

Excellent - so we should be going for containment and drawing them into places where heavy weapons can support, but avoiding them toe to toe in their element.

[Marshall666]

there is one infantry troop which can face them in direct battle.finnish sissi-troops!try it when you are able to bought them,they work wonders with their mp`s and demo-charges.

[Saint Ruth]

You don't. Laugh and them and go take the rest of the map. Leave an MG or MG-armed light armored vehicle covering open routes out of their lair, and then flat ignore them. I don't care if they are on a flag. Go kill the rest of the Russian force.

Actually though this is an obvious, it's the best piece of advice for a lot of CM situations.

E.g. If you're Russian with a bunch of T-34/76 in July 43, don't try for a LOW kill against the Tiger's rear, just ignore that slow tiger and use the T-34s to kill his half-tracks or impede his infantry.
Same with AT guns. Ignore it. Try and get around it. Don't try have a shooting match.

The entire point of Blitzkreig is to ignore the enemy's strong points and attack his weak points. A lot of people do the opposite.