251/16 HT Obosilete under new assualt rules

[Kool Kat]

Mike, thanks for that.

So if the assault factor is still the primary factor, how are FT vehicles considered obsolete? Even with the introduction of morale checks in assaults, shouldn't we still see big SP losses from the defender in the 1st round of combat, making the 2nd round much more likely to succeed?

I believe one of the main issues of FT vehicles is their very short range coupled with low defense factors and high victory points.

How do you effectively deploy these vehicles to be more then "1-shot wonders?"

Many scenarios that I have played with FT vehicles - these units either get underutilized or I just remove them from the board to avoid the corresponding victory point loss.

[junk2drive]

How do you know morale with FOW and ? displayed?

[Jason Petho]

How do you know morale with FOW and ? displayed?

You don't, but that is the beauty of Fog of War.

Knowing what causes morale losses is important; ensuring you are doing everything you can do to cause morale losses and mentally keeping track of them is important.

Of course, some will be better at it than others.

Others will gain that knowledge through experience.

Jason Petho

[Mike Abberton]

The combat results table describes the situations and the chances that a unit will have to make a morale check and the effects of that morale check. It is available in the manual, I think, and I know it is available in help menu.

Probably a decent way to get a feel for morale losses is to closely watch a few units during the replays. Get a good idea of the punishment they take during your opponent's turn, then track their morale from turn to turn. You'll begin to get a idea of how fast morale can be affected by various situations. There is a fair amount of randomness, though, so gather data for a while before you jump to any conclusions.

Also remember that the higher a unit's morale, the less morale it will lose during combat. I can't remember the default morales (it can be modified in the scenario) off the top of my head of course, but better units, like SS PzGr and most Japanese troops will probably have a starting morale around 7 or 8, so they are very tough to degrade. Leaders will also give a minimum of a 1 point boost to morale, at least to unit's in their command.

[Von Luck]

Good points from Jason and Mike the commander ie you should keep tabs on what is happening now you have to watch your's and enemy units more closely getting more right real life battle and command maybe????

[junk2drive]

Of course, some will be better at it than others.

Others will gain that knowledge through experience.

Jason Petho

Use the force, Luke...

[Jason Petho]

Use the force, Luke...

That's a given!

Jason Petho

[Stuka44]

I agree that perhaps a one hex decently powerful range for a flamethrower vehicle would be good. Although in the minority I vastly prefer the hard assault rules which reduce the amount of units which just disappear. Most of the main combatants armies were fairly good at not being routed. They had the ability to fall back given an escape route, and still fire as they fell back hopefully taking some of the enemy with them. Very rarely unless absolutely surrounded with no hex to escape through would they simply lay down their arms, except possibly very late in the war.

[umbro]

Stuka44 makes a good point, however, the fix to avoid being captured is not to change the assault rules so as to make capture impossible, but rather to set up your defences to avoid capture and provide escape routes for your troops.

There are many tactics to achieve this. Note that assault only captures (usually) when there is no escape hex out of enemy ZOC.

umbro

[Steelrain60]

I may be in the minority here, but I'd actually prefer to keep the rules for FT vehicles as they are, although I'd love to have some improved animation to accompany their use.

I've always found 251/16s and their ilk, ie lightly protected close-combat vehicles, to be of limited utility. One should never assault a hex with them without attaching an infantry platoon to the assault. In CS, as it probably was in real life, one should only employ these assets with care and forethought if one wishes to preserve them.