"To fire or not to fire, that is the question?"

[Mr Grumpy]

In a recent test with Volcano Man in which we were trying to discover how long the surrounded Axis units in the Halfaya Pass bunkers (with a supply source) could survive, i tried a tactic of not firing with my Axis units in my turn as this inevitability brought down defensive 25 Pdr arty fire on my bunkers, i figured that with 50% (ish) less arty fire my units would last longer as there would be less chance of a disruption and their fatigue would be lessened. ;)

This was a mirror test and Ed did not use this tactic and attempted to dish out as much punishment to my Allied forces as possible, although this tactic did draw more arty fire i was amazed that it was my Axis units who suffered from the disruptions and i lost two bunkers to his one. :hissy:

So the question is does refraining from firing on your turn actually help preserve a defensive unit or should you hand out all the punishment you can? :chin:

I would be interested in players thoughts and experiences.................

[Sgt Barker]

Hmmm... I often withhold fire during my turn for just the reason you state. Have no data about the effects, it just seems intuitive. Less fire on my units, they last longer.

At first I thought it was 'gamey' to do this, but then figured (rationalized?) that it wasn't; it simply reflects units "going to ground" and making the enemy come to them. After all, defensive fire still works (I play exclusively with auto fire.)

[Krak]

I agree with Sgt Barker. Definately depends on the situation. Although the thought it may be gamey never entered my head...

Further to this, it seems that sometimes if you have fired at a unit 2 times and still have not received any defensive fire from it, foregoing that last shot of yours is sometimes a wise move, unless seeking a disrupt. Because quite often that last shot then results in a hail of gunfire from the defending unit.

This is another reason why I advocate an optional rule for maximum defensive fire by defending units at phase end. To often defending units with plenty of ammo do nothing.

[Hadge]

Foul...

As you well know ..I always hunker in my bunker ......!

As a general rule (not being a desert rat tha' knows) I would never fire defensivilly from a Bunker (or pillbox) ...prefering to allow the " threat of a defensive threat" to take away the offensive initiative from my opponent.

It is, as always, a matter of personality and character, as how to how one approaches such obstacles...

if you have had no beer - you might like to take the recon POV - the suss it out, and be cautious attiude.

If you have had three beers - then you may try the "lets go for the - throw a few stones, and attempt a disruption" approach.

If you have had several more beers, then you may become reckless and carefree, and go for the " I really dont give a *amn" " scenario, and just give the hex a good whollop ..im on a high ..*ugger the end result type situation .........

Either way ... we all just want to take that hex..... dont we ??

So ..I will refer you all back to paragraph 3...and hope you enjoy the curent cunundrem....

as always



Chris

[Ricky B]

Personally, I will generally fire out of good protected positions like bunkers, although it does depend on the situation. If there are many units in the bunker, I am more likely to fire than if there is just one, as it is harder to disrupt all the defenders at once that way. The enemy HA strength has an impact also, if most of the units can't hurt the defenders, I will more generally fire.

Same goes for other positions, I will hold my fire if the enemy firepower is significantly higher than mine, or fire away if I can dominate their units in the current situation.

Rick

[Gordons HQ]

I agree with most of the above, I think from the experience I have had with the game it's sometimes best to hold your fire in defensive positions. It often depends on circumstances of course and if in good bunkers or pillboxes then it's oftenl worth opening fire with a reasonable chance of survival.
However sometimes to wear down the opposition it seems better to hold fire and let the enemy get further fatigued when attacking.

[Marquo]

There are certain units (PzGs among ithers) I fire at almost no matter what the situation, and no matter what state they are in...and one of the few times I breakdown units is in bunkers or pillboxes for exactly the reason Rick stated.

Anyway, the attacker can always "draw fire" from armor units and then fire or assault with infantry/engineers, so much depends on the tactics the attacker is using as to what to do as the defender.

Marquo :)

[Al]

I would also have to go along with what was said above. If I have a good amount of firepower stacked in a bunker or pillbox I will "almost" always fire at the attackers. However, in any lesser defensive position I will hold fire unless an really favorable situation presents itself.

[fastphil]

A lot of factors are involved.
Nationality is one, morale is another, number of units defending and number of units attacking. First thing in decision to fire is is attacker/defender disrupted. The main goal of the majority of my attacks is based on disrupting enemy units and avoiding disruption myself. You can not attack nor defend a position that is subject to assault if disrupted. Attacking bunkers from adjacent units is usually a waste-better to disrupt with artillery/air and assault with those units. Defenders goal is to disrupt units capable of assault, while attackers is to get adjacent without being disrupted. That being said if your enemy out numbers you(number of units adjacent) and you need to hold that position don't give him any free shots in DF. Make him use MPs in his turn to fire vice assaulting or moving.
I am less apt to DF low morale units-they disrupt easier-don't give your opponents more free opportunties to disrupt you.
If I have one unit defending and 3+ good order units attacking or in position to attack, I will not usually offensive fire.
There all always exceptions.
My first rule is if I am going to fire, do not waste fire on disrupted unts. My first fire is always at units that can assault me. The most dangerous one first until that unit is disrupted, and on to the next. Disrupted units are mission killed and fire shifted to non-disrupted units. Exception you need to break a unit to clear a path for supply or movement and you can't assault it. Defending a bridge from a non-assaultable hex is the most common I think.:smoke:

[Liebchen]

...one of the few times I breakdown units is in bunkers or pillboxes for exactly the reason Rick stated.

But you're also increasing each individual unit's risk of breaking, aren't you? It sounds like six of one, half a dozen of the other, to me.