ZOC'S again

James Ward · 10-29-2008, 01:59 AM,

Foul. Wrote:Case 3, this is with the ZOC Opt rule unchecked (off) and the ZOC Movement Multiplier (found at the bottom of the PDT table, press F4) is non zero, in this case you can move through ZOC's but at an increased MP cost, the cost in MP's is determined by multiplying the cost of the terrain by the multiplier number, this case is used in the desert titles i own.

So Case 2 is the most common ZOC rule you will find.

I know that is a bit complicated, but that is the best i can do. ;)

Thanks.
Option 3 seems like the 'best' option because it makes you worry about defending ever hex. The every other hex defense always rubbed me the wrong way all the way back to my boardgaming days! I don't know if it will screw up any of the games I own but I think I may try a few scenarios with it enabled.

**Ricky B** · 10-29-2008, 03:24 AM,

You just have to look at the unit density the 2 sides have if you make this change, in many cases it will require adding breakdowns to units so that there are enough units to cover every hex. In some cases - Kharkov for example - there aren't enough Axis units even with company breakdowns to cover the entire front, you would need platoons in that case.

Rick

**Mr Grumpy** · 10-29-2008, 03:37 AM,

James Ward Wrote:
Foul. Wrote:Case 3, this is with the ZOC Opt rule unchecked (off) and the ZOC Movement Multiplier (found at the bottom of the PDT table, press F4) is non zero, in this case you can move through ZOC's but at an increased MP cost, the cost in MP's is determined by multiplying the cost of the terrain by the multiplier number, this case is used in the desert titles i own.

So Case 2 is the most common ZOC rule you will find.

I know that is a bit complicated, but that is the best i can do. ;)

Thanks.
Option 3 seems like the 'best' option because it makes you worry about defending ever hex. The every other hex defense always rubbed me the wrong way all the way back to my boardgaming days! I don't know if it will screw up any of the games I own but I think I may try a few scenarios with it enabled.

James, by all means try out different ZOC rules to see if you like the effects they have, but IMO using Case 3 will effect how scenarios designed to use another Case will play.

Glad we could help, i hope you find a option that agrees with you. Big Grin

James Ward · 10-29-2008, 04:35 AM,

Foul. Wrote:James, by all means try out different ZOC rules to see if you like the effects they have, but IMO using Case 3 will effect how scenarios designed to use another Case will play.

Glad we could help, i hope you find a option that agrees with you.

I'm gonna start small and work my way up! The ZOC rules don't effect how supply is traced do they?

Dog Soldier · 10-29-2008, 05:23 AM,

James Ward Wrote:I'm gonna start small and work my way up! The ZOC rules don't effect how supply is traced do they?

Absolutely the ZOC affects supply. Again think of interdiction by fire. If such fire can stop a combat unit, then supply units would avoid being shot at even more so! Without ZOC driving the ammo or fuel truck right under the noses of the enemy would then be possible.

A further note on ZOC.
ZOC is a concept from board gaming that is tied directly to the hexagonal grid system. While hexes allow for placement of units, it does not mean that there are invisible walls along the hex lines. ZOC rules allow, in a indirect way, for the unit to influence an area it might have in real combat of the period. Thus ZOC rule are necessary to create that FOW feeling where the commander on the ground, inside your unit, is not so sure what is in front of him as you the game player are. This was mentioned upstream by fastphil. I think it is crucial to the design of an operational level game system with turn based time track. Your units would not just stand still during the other guy's turn, because events really are happening at the same time. ZOC rules indirectly simulate this as the enemy maneuvers, he has to respect the ZOC which simulates how your unit is reacting to the enemy movement.

You, the game player know there is only a single X on the counter in front of you. For a realistic game simulation, you really should not know even that about your own troops for every unit. Units out of command should not tell you their morale fatigue or strength. But that is another issue.
You also should not be certain that supposed enemy infantry unit has no HA factor (ie. AT support integrated into the unit), until you enter the enemy hex or get your tanks shot at from range.

We all know there are numerous cases in history when superior forces stopped because they were not certain or even fooled into believing the enemy was stronger than they really were.

Be careful what you wish for. Locking ZOC and no ZOC are extremes. I find the overall game mechanics work best with the default ZOC rules. PZC is an operational level game. Units on the map are approximate locations based on what the unit commanders report to you at higher HQ. And as someone pointed out, they always seem to know precisely where they are. In reality, units do get lost, and gaps appear that are sometimes noticed by the enemy and sometimes not. Now figure out how to program that into a game and watch the complaints roll in that players think there is too much of a luck element in the game system since the enemy did something in his turn that was thought to be impossible.

Dog Soldier

James Ward · 10-29-2008, 05:41 AM,

Dog Soldier Wrote:Absolutely the ZOC affects supply.

What I meant was do the different ZOC rules effect supply differently. For example if I am using option 3 where you can move zoc to zoc at a given movement cost, as opposed to a locking zoc or one that required the hex to be occupied, would supply be able to be traced through an unoccupied hex in an enemy zoc that I just moved through?