LEAVE 1.04 ALONE !

[Chuck10mtn]

I hope this discussion has stopped the picky complaints about the magnificent job of upgrading that we now have available for play

"Magnificent" is in the eye of the beholder. Some do not share it?

"Picky complaints"? Not really.
Who were the "picky complainers" who forced the extreme assault rules, for whatever reason, upon us in the first place?

RR

Some do not share it indeed. You can't please everyone, but we try. That's why is optional. Nobody is forced anything. And your "us" has been very vague all along. I don't have the impression you are the spokesman of many, even if your voice is loud.
I'm not going over that debate again. This is about the version we support at the moment and that is 1.04. Question answered.

I for one think that the designers of the game went out on thier own with the new assult rules to begin with.I never voted for harded rules, I never voted for a NEW game, I never voted for all the xtra units now. Lets build a bridge in 6 min OK thats real. Why do the people who developed this game feel the need to add realism to it. I sure as hell never voted for that. The game started out as pieces of cardboard, now that the computer age has caught up with us now we go from cardboard to realism.
Has the game and what its based on changed ?? I thaught this game was susposed to take out all the cardboard pcs. The unfitting maps and the family pet ruining your 10hr battle. But no someplace down the line here somebody wanted realism in it. Well I agree with Ed, MR Roadrunner as a comsumer I didn't get what I wanted I got what you as developers wanted me to play. Who can up with the var. visability rule how and the hell can you defend weather changing every 6 min.
Ok so I had to vent Why is everybody pilling on Ed, he just stating his opinions and would like some answers , so do I. No wait SEND ME THE FILE thats about the standard answer . Well thats about it !!!

Chuck

[Jason Petho]

I for one think that the designers of the game went out on thier own with the new assult rules to begin with.I never voted for harded rules, I never voted for a NEW game, I never voted for all the xtra units now.

I don't think Matrix has public voting stations for anything they do?

Lets build a bridge in 6 min OK thats real.

Bridges aren't built in 6 minutes, take a peek at the Bridging building capabilities within the manual.

Who can up with the var. visability rule how and the hell can you defend weather changing every 6 min.

With 1.04 the variable visibility does not change every turn. Check it out.

No wait SEND ME THE FILE thats about the standard answer . Well thats about it !!!

Clearly you can see that a file helps in understanding what the issues are? It helped clarify things in the last example.

Jason Petho

[Herr Straße Laufer]

I hope this discussion has stopped the picky complaints about the magnificent job of upgrading that we now have available for play

"Magnificent" is in the eye of the beholder. Some do not share it?

"Picky complaints"? Not really.
Who were the "picky complainers" who forced the extreme assault rules, for whatever reason, upon us in the first place?

RR

Some do not share it indeed. You can't please everyone, but we try. That's why is optional. Nobody is forced anything. And your "us" has been very vague all along. I don't have the impression you are the spokesman of many, even if your voice is loud.
I'm not going over that debate again. This is about the version we support at the moment and that is 1.04. Question answered.

:bow: Oh great Huib. Now I know who took over when God died. You presume too much. :rolleyes:
And, I've never gotten above a whisper. Nor will I be shouted down by the likes of you.
Your "we" has the tone of jackboots stomping on cobblestones?

RR

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775

[Herr Straße Laufer]

<snip>
But no someplace down the line here somebody wanted realism in it. Well I agree with Ed, MR Roadrunner as a comsumer I didn't get what I wanted I got what you as developers wanted me to play. Who can up with the var. visability rule how and the hell can you defend weather changing every 6 min.
Ok so I had to vent Why is everybody pilling on Ed, he just stating his opinions and would like some answers , so do I. No wait SEND ME THE FILE thats about the standard answer . Well thats about it !!!

Chuck

Hi Chuck,

I'm often surprised at the level that those who wish to call me names have gone. I am over twenty-one and can handle debate. It's the ceaseless name calling when posting in their defense that get's tiring.

That I wanted an assault rule better than either choice we have been given goes on deaf ears?

I appreciate your support. I know that now we may be seen as only two voices that are contrary to what Matrix through the "volunteers" decided to do. But, there are others? If they feel they want to speak they will?
I'm happy with simply speaking my mind.

Ed

[Huib Versloot]

I for one think that the designers of the game went out on thier own with the new assult rules to begin with.I never voted for harded rules, I never voted for a NEW game, I never voted for all the xtra units now. Lets build a bridge in 6 min OK thats real. Why do the people who developed this game feel the need to add realism to it. I sure as hell never voted for that. The game started out as pieces of cardboard, now that the computer age has caught up with us now we go from cardboard to realism.
Has the game and what its based on changed ?? I thaught this game was susposed to take out all the cardboard pcs. The unfitting maps and the family pet ruining your 10hr battle. But no someplace down the line here somebody wanted realism in it. Well I agree with Ed, MR Roadrunner as a comsumer I didn't get what I wanted I got what you as developers wanted me to play. Who can up with the var. visability rule how and the hell can you defend weather changing every 6 min.
Ok so I had to vent Why is everybody pilling on Ed, he just stating his opinions and would like some answers , so do I. No wait SEND ME THE FILE thats about the standard answer . Well thats about it !!!

Like I said, we can't please everyone. If you don't like the game don't play it, or don't upgrade if you liked an older version. Pity, but you're not the only one who might have purchased a game that doesn't suit your needs. I have game titles on my own shelf that I don't play for the same reason.
You obviously also don't understand the abstractions in this game. A turn lasts six minutes supposedly but the first turn and and the 10th turn can be several hours apart. Now figure that out. If you succeeded you'll understand how short sighted your six minutes remarks were. If you can't, well I already said this game might not suit your needs.
Everybody (well not everybody I assume) is pilling on Ed beause he repeatedly calls other people's work rubbish, at least as far as I'm concerned. It's an opinion he's entitled to, but you don't make friends or earn respect that way especially as the criticism comes without examples or solid arguments WHY it is not good. It's also contra-productive because nobody in the dev team now bothers to listen to him anymore after so many rants.

/H

[Valor]

Gentlemen,

Please stay on the topic: the version 1.04. Don't let get the discussion out of hand and too personal again.

Regards

Slawek

[Valor]

And going back into discussion...

I agree with Pip Roberts. We shouldn't have to be too quick in calling for new upgrades (1.05 or whatever). The mess which was ongoing with 1.03, 1.04 (and other variations) is a memento for us...

But I do not agree that it's already perfect.

As for me, it's better to have a choice that don't have. But most important is the right to say what I do like and don't like about the game... to say more, if something is not broken, don't make more changes!

Best regards

Slawek

[Chuck10mtn]

Hey Huib,
Why in my Talonsoft Players Guide on page 2 paraghaph 2 does it state that a turn is " equivalent to about six minutes of REAL TIME" So if your scns are based on 3x that much time are the victory levels still good??. If you have decided to change the time of the game shouldn't it have been stated someplace in your scenarios. Are your scenarios based on 250 meters to a hex, because the 250 meters is based on 6 minutes to a turn. So your scenarios are scewared because the distance doesn't equil the time permitted in the game.
I'll give you that maybe Ed stepped a tad over the line by calling somebodies work rubbish. I think he has put a lot of time playing and doesn't like the direction the game is headed, and wants to let people know.
Sorry Valor if this doesn't fit into the topic guidelines I couldn't help myself.

Chuck

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Like I said, we can't please everyone. If you don't like the game don't play it, or don't upgrade if you liked an older version.

So version 1.04 is love it or leave it? Isn't the latest disk release going to be the comprehensive "latest" version and the one you'll support? Good work boys!

You obviously also don't understand the abstractions in this game. A turn lasts six minutes supposedly but the first turn and and the 10th turn can be several hours apart. Now figure that out. If you succeeded you'll understand how short sighted your six minutes remarks were. If you can't, well I already said this game might not suit your needs.

You can't be serious. How dare you say that! It says a lot for arrogance and the failure to understand those who play this game?
Sanctimonious and elitist snobbery over version 1.04 displayed for all to see. Maybe Matrix, the company, can learn that lesson and put you all in your place?

Everybody (well not everybody I assume) is pilling on Ed beause he repeatedly calls other people's work rubbish, at least as far as I'm concerned. It's an opinion he's entitled to, but you don't make friends or earn respect that way especially as the criticism comes without examples or solid arguments WHY it is not good. It's also contra-productive because nobody in the dev team now bothers to listen to him anymore after so many rants.

Oh, you listen well enough. Elitist as you and the team may be, you listen and take every measure to minimize any critique of your work.
I think I might have said on occasion that the graphics are great, the hidden AT units are fun, but, your scenarios specifically are garbage, and the new extreme assault rules are not what game needs to keep it the fun game that lasted for many years prior to your guys tinkering with it.

When you build yourself up to knock others down, you just display all that is wrong with version 1.04.

RR

[Adolf Vahringer]

It's also contra-productive because nobody in the dev team now bothers to listen to him anymore after so many rants.

/H

Well, I would hope that they listen to him because he makes some very good points. To ignore his concerns just because you do not like what he is saying is nothing more than arrogance.

Now as I do not design scenarios, am part of the dev team, or understand all of the 'mechanical” workings behind the software I generally stay out of these arguments as I do not think it is right for me to criticize the hard work put in by others while I offer so little, but this one has been going on long enough and I am coming out to say I fully support Ed's side of this argument.

I still play with the extreme assault rules on and I am trying to like them, but IMHO it has slowed and altered the game to a point that it just seems to have taken some of the enjoyment out of it. I am going to continue to try and adapt to them, but if you tell me I either have to like it or leave it, I will leave it.

I just played a scenario in which a disrupted and surrounded 1SP 37mm AT Gun withstood several assaults for 2 turns (all the while spotting arty down on the Infantry). Now fortunately, the AT gunner was one of my units so I got to laugh and named him John Wayne. Now that's reality?

(Sorry Jason, I thought about sending the turn to you, but ended up deleting the file. Any future incidents I will forward to you.)

I appreciate everyones hard work to make this a more enjoyable game, but if we do not hear and take into consideration all sides of the argument, then the few grognards that still play the CS series will become fewer.

Gavin