Is anybody out there??

[Der Kuenstler]

If it's not an advert for a game or looking for help with a problem, there's not much to post on the main board anymore.

True - the sites that sometimes appear more busy actually aren't talking about Combat Mission but gossip and other subjects.

It seems the different sites have become specialized. If you want serious tactical or historical posts and debate go to Battlefront. If you want tourneys go to FGM. If you want humor, satire, and current events, go to WAW. If you want a close friendly family go to BoB. If you want games and ladder stats go here. But each individual site appears to have less than a dozen regular posters.

By doing some math on the "Main Event" thread - it looks like about 40-50 guys are looking at it every day, so that's pretty good.

I'm like SR and LB though - I'll continue to play this game until a superior replacement appears.

[herroberst]

I like the CM engine and switched over from CS in 2003 - in part because it seemed like CS was being taken over by elitists who liked to be rude to new members and players. I've never felt that way with the CM gang and I have played a lot of people and a lot of games.

1. I suggest a more active management of getting the new members out of basic training by having whoever manages that to post the new players on the forum and asking active players to engage them. I'm always happy to challenge guys that ask for games on the forum, whoever they are.

2. Have to make it interesting for the new players, maybe more work acknowledging new members with short bios and interested posted on the forum. Maybe post a "tactic or technique of the day" kind of thing that brings up nuances and rules that we all might overlook or forget over time.

3. By the same token, more active management of scenario designers new scenarios - prod veterans to play and rate them. Owls tourney was a step in the right direction.

4. Der Kuenstler's Main Event has drawn alot of interest (although as a player I can't read it) and that is simple to do. Maybe more of those kind of events, maybe matching vets on vets, new members on new members or vets on new members with a point difference. I love tournaments! and Lord Banes Ardennes Campaign at FGM is great!

5. Recognize that eventually interest will wane as the engine becomes dated and new stuff comes out but that there is a high likelihood that it will carry on with the grognards as does the campaign series which still gets alot of posts.

6. Ask members to actively introduce new members to the fray.

[Mad Baron]

One suggestion is to have a ''6-month ladder'' as an addition. The all-time ladder is great, and you have to keep that one, but most new players have to dig around the bottom to see their accomplishments. So have a 6-month ladder that shows only those players that report a game during that period. All the same info as the all-time ladder, but have the players ranked according to Win %, so even a new player who plays just a single 1000-point QB but wins it, will see himself at least sharing the top spot on that 6-month ladder. At the end of the 6 months, clear the ladder and begin from scratch again, with only games reported in the new period counting.

I'd suggest January-June and July-December. If this could be done retro-actively without too much muss or fuss, I'd post a ladder now that has anyone reporting in July up to the end of next month.

I noticed my own stats for the last 12 months. I average 2-3 games a month reported. For the previous 6-12 month period I averaged slightly more wins than losses. But the last 3 months I have more than double losses as wins, which confirms what I've been feeling for a while now: burn-out. I figured I needed to take a break or something pretty soon. A 6-month ladder might motivate me to slow down but not stop, and take my time and try to compete for a nice spot, at my own pace, on the new temporary ladder.

The key again is to rank by WIN %. People who play a lot of big point games will always out-score more casual players, and ELO doesn't need to be the front seat of a 6-month ladder either. A 6-month Win % Ladder would be fair and open to newby and veteran alike.

Trying to sharp-shoot my own idea here...and I see some players could just play once and win and thereby remain at the top the whole 6 months (would anyone do that??), leading even someone who played 10 and only lost once. So maybe require at least 2 games posted by the 3-month period to stay on the ladder, and 4 by the 5th month, or something reasonable? And maybe require some minimum game points to be eligible to be on the 6-month ladder, like at least 1000 pt. games? All this just to make sure at least moderately serious players are competeing on the ladder. And the 6 months to each ladder is just to keep it small and attainable to new players joining at any time.

And if people share a % bracket, the one with more games played is listed above the other.

Just an idea to roll around.......;)

[enigma6584]

Back to the ladder. I don't think everyone is on a quest to get to the top of it. I don't even report all my games and have no intention on making a run for the all time points leader. The ladder is just a good way to see how you stack up against other players etc. It is not a true measure of a players skill but it gives you an idea.

Lord Bane (FGM)

As a new member, I can perhaps speak to some of the concerns here regarding new members not challenging on the ladder. Of course I only speak for myself but none-the-less, here is my perspective.

I thought that Lord Bane's post here regarding the ladder was rather spot on with respect to myself. I really don't care to be on the ladder or report any games to the ladder. It is just not my thing. I don't care whether I win or lose a scenario as long as I and my opponant put up a good fight and I get some sense of the history that took place in those battles during WW2. I prefer because of this, historically based scenarios as opposed to quick battle ones for ladder competition. I'm in it for the love of WW2 history and not for the sake of competition.

I have and would play scenarios in which I have a disadvantage because I want to experience through this game what it was like for a Russian infantry commander to command conscript troops against a veteran German infantry battalion. You get my drift here.

Now that is not to take away from any of you who regularly play the ladders. I am just not interested in getting caught up in all of that. I only play (usually 4 games-two CMAK and two CMBB) at any one time and it has been all with new people who as I understand it do not play the ladders as well.

It feels more relaxed as opposed to feeling like you gotta win in order to climb the ladder. Rightly or wrongly, that is the way I feel about it.

I agree that as far as tactical posts go, it really has kind of all been said. POS has the definetive set of tactics threads which answer damn near every question you could have about the game mechanics. As far as tactics go, that is just something you pick up along the way over the course of dozens of games.
Lord Bane (FGM)

This is indeed one of the reasons I like coming here. All those posts by POS and others about the mechanics of the game and how it relates to tactics are absolutely priceless. Going through those archives of tactical material has made me a better player and taught me much in terms of tactics and how they are simulated in this game.

One learns from them and they are fun to read with respect to seeing how others conduct the tactical operations. Frankly, this site does a fantastic job of archiving all that material and making it available for the new players.

The one thing that you didn't mention is the time of the year. I bet it is about 90% of your problem as far as how quiet it is. Winter is closing in, everyone is preparing and gaming time is low. Hunting season, football season, the holidays etc. It is just a slow time for gaming right now. A natural slow down time. I think you will see things pick back up in the next few weeks.

Thats all I have for now.

Lord Bane (FGM)

Absolutely agree. As mentioned before, I have been playing four games total with other guys who don't play the ladder. Even that small number of PBEMs (compared to you guys) can be rather hell to keep up with when you have real life to contend with, other pc gaming interests or just plain need to take a break from the computer for a while. It all works together to determine whether I myself have the time or inclination to play this game competively.

My gaming interests go in phases. I am a big time flight sim fan. That is my number one love when it comes to pc games or simulations. I also love tank simulations and am a big user of Esim's SBPE simulation. I enjoy naval operations as far as simulations go and play several submarine simulations when I am in the mood for that particular genre.

The point of the above paragraph is that all those loves (including this game) take up precious time, precious gaming time which is usually quite finite. There is only so much one can play and so little time to do it. Something has got to give.

Playing in a comptitive ladder or in some tournament, which would put me under some sort of "time pressure," would IMHO just make me feel like I am working as opposed to playing and having fun.

[Ratzki]

The ladder issue is partly the reason that I do the monthly top 10. The settings are 10+ games played in the last 12 months. It is not a true who is the best of the best, but it will show trends and everyone has a chance to get into the top 10. It does not penalize those who play only 10 games in a year or those that play 50+ games in the same time. It is just a snapshot of the ladder at one point in time.
I think that the only way to get a 6 month or year ladder would be to create a league that puts players against one another within the league.

[JasonC]

Personally, any time I post on tactics on the main Battleground forums I get sauce and vinegar and attitude, and I can get as much of that as I require with my breakfast, so...

My general attitude toward remaining diehard CM players is they are fine players and no doubt bricks in real life, but in online discussions, I'd rather have root canal.

[Mike Abberton]

Regarding the shorter-term ladders, does everyone know that with about 2-3 clicks of the mouse that you can get the 3-month, 6-month and 12-month versions of the CM ladder (or any club ladder)?

In the lower left of the ladder page header, there is a pull down that by default says "All Time". Expand it and you get the above choice. Select the ladder you want, and hit "go".

So for instance, POS leads the 3-month ladder, and M1A1 leads the six-month and 12-month ladders.

[Der Kuenstler]

The default view here is all-time, which sends a clear message to all who visit that we feel it is the most important view. That's why it is set at default. If the default view was "annual" it would be more welcoming to new players. Actually the ladder now doesn't measure annual champions, only those for the last 12 months, etc. If you look at the view here - it is not for 2008, it is for the past 12 months. If I were to ask who the Blitz ladder champion was in the year 2006 for example, who would know?

Stats are very important and add interest - that's why professional sports push them. I would like to know the top three ELO leaders for each year here since the Blitz began, for example. Or the one with the most games played in one year, or most wins in one year. Or longest win or loss streak. These are all records that people could go for and try to break, to add interest.

An annual ladder default view would encourage the newbies and put them on the same ground with the old guard every January 1st, and would challenge the vets "What have you done lately?"

We have guys in the top 20 here who haven't played a game in months, but they are still there because of what they did 2 years ago. That's fine for an all-time view but I don't think it encourages new people.

[jawsconan]

Hi,

About the ladder, there are many different ways to read the ladder and to evaluate ourselves (points reading, ELO reading, with a selected period reading...) Everybody is free to use it the best way for him. That's why the blitz ladder is ergonomic and complete. But i agree that the main page with the points reading could demoralize some players. May be a neutral page with only the menu to select parameters we want to watch could be a solution (no names, no list on this page).

About CM, i think this is the best engine ever created about strategic games. So i will continue to play it until there will be another better. A solution could be to pay a coder team who could patch the current version with all newnesses that we all want (new units, possibility to hide units behind wreckages and other points...). If each member who wants a new version is already to pay something, may be we could have enough money to pay this coder (for exemple an unemployed coder).

cheers.
jawsconan

[kineas]

Personally, any time I post on tactics on the main Battleground forums I get sauce and vinegar and attitude, and I can get as much of that as I require with my breakfast, so...

My general attitude toward remaining diehard CM players is they are fine players and no doubt bricks in real life, but in online discussions, I'd rather have root canal.

Because a few members always dispute what you post regardless of the topic. They are always going to do that, so don't bother, you'll never please them. The silent majority like your posts.