New Mideast 85 pack by Al Sandrik!

Spud · 11-21-2008, 06:45 AM,

Guys,

First, many thanks to Sandrik for creating some fantastic Mideast scens .... and the recent post of graphics for 85 scens has fixed the missing picture problem.

Secondly, maybe I'm miss-reading Middle East 67 users guide, but was wondering how you get units to employ chemical and nuclear weapons?

I note that some units are tagged with "has chemical/nuclear weapons" .. does this mean when you fire an arty. battery it automatically employs such weapons, or do you have to do something to enable such units to use WMD?

Sorry if the question sounds dumb ..

Spud

**Ricky B** · 11-21-2008, 07:21 AM,

Hey Spud,

2 things are involved in the use of WMDs. First, the scenario has to have one side or both sides setup with them, and only one side can use this first, the other side can't until the side that can uses them first. Second, there is a menu choice Command - Use Alternate Fire must be chosen on the top menu. Then when you fire artillery, it brings up a dialog to fire normal, mines if the player has any, or various chemicals or nukes, if the player has any of these.

As Middle East came out before the latest changes to the chems and nukes that were implemented in Danube Front, but the engine has been updated, the scenarios are not setup to use the various kinds of chems and nukes now allowed, and it may be that none of the scenarios are setup to use any at all. I would have to look to know for sure - I do know that Volcano Man's Jihad '04 does have WMDs and mines for both sides, with the Arabs being the side that is allowed first use. I am unaware of any stock scenarios with this though.

Rick

sandrik · (This post was last modified: 11-21-2008, 10:43 AM by sandrik.)

Rick,

Actually these six have been optimized for use of WMDs and in some I have set it up so the A/I will use WMD's from the beginning. To do that I just deployed a WMD hex marker (Persistant Chemicals) in the home territory of the A/I and the A/I assumes it has been attacked and retaliates. The units that say "Has Nukes" on them have smaller nukes that can be used in any of the surrounding hexes and the Artillery with WMD capability uses the Alternative Fire method to fire WMDs. Took me a while to figure that out myself in playtesting. I think I left a few Artillery units with "Has Nukes" as well as WMDs with the idea that if worst comes to worst they could trigger an artillery shell in their area (although I'm sure the crew would think twice about it :rolleyes:!!!! ). So your description of how to use the WMDs is correct but from reading your comments I'm assuming/guessing that you were not aware that we designed these scenarios to take advantage of the new WMD capability in ME '67.

Al

Spud · 11-21-2008, 02:45 PM,

Ricky B and Sandrik,

Many thanks for quick reply.

I have anyother question re-nukes/chemicals, though. Sorry.

What affect does the use of nuclear/chemical attacks have on areas struck.

I just played around with both and although a radiation icon pops-up in the square stuck, can units move into it? Do they get a penalty if they do?

And I just whacked a Syrian tank unit with a nuke and got a result of "fatigure" - not one tank was destroyed. So can units hit by nukes/chemicals carrry-on as normal, or is there something I've missed?

Thanks.

Spud

**Ricky B** · 11-22-2008, 12:49 PM,

Hi Spud,

As with my other response, this is a general set of answers, as I don't have Al's scenarios loaded.

Nukes and Chems will disrupt all units in the target hex. There will also be an attack on the units, based on the parameters set for the scenario. It is possible the result of this attack will be no losses, but the disruption should occur also. Any unit moving into the affected hex will also suffer the above items.

The disrupted unit can rally in the affected hex. Also, for non-persistant chem and nuke attacks, the game checks for their removal each turn, and they can disappear and have no more impact on the hex.

I think that covers it all.

JDR Dragoon · 12-13-2008, 08:30 AM,

I took the 1985 scenarios for a quick spin. I think the "Armageddon" versions captures the reality of NBC warfare pretty well within the limitations of the game (the entire israeli frontline awash in persistent and non persistent agents makes for a ghastly sight). So props to the scenario designer for getting this horrible aspect just right (whether realistically depicting the horror of nuclear and chemical warfare is anything to be proud about is of course debatable :cheeky:)

JDR Dragoon · (This post was last modified: 12-13-2008, 08:59 AM by JDR Dragoon.)

A little observation (after chucking a few israeli nukes around): The "Nuke Factor" in the 1985.pdt is set at 0.00000 for both sides. This means that chucking a nuke at a hex will do little more than kill a few men and disrupt them! Is this intentional?

JDR Dragoon · 12-14-2008, 06:49 AM,

Another small observation:

Some israeli artillery units are marked as "Has (NP) Chemical Weapon", yet have no capacity to deliver said weapons due to them not being "WMD" capable. They can at best deliver them into the adjacent hex "Suicide bomber style". Is this intentional? I notice that other israeli artillery units are WMD capable.

(an example: 405th SP Artillery Battalion (M109a1)/212th Artillery Regiment/36th UGDA/Northern Command. Also: 188 Armored Support Company (120mm mortars)/188 Barak Brigade/36th UGDA/Northern Command)

sandrik · (This post was last modified: 01-08-2009, 10:09 AM by sandrik.)

Yes it is intential. The idea is that if the unit is about to be overrun they would have the opportunity to take out the enemy units (as well as likely themselves). This is the Middle East and lets face it Israeli POWs don't usually fair too well. So I figured in a situation like this with TAC Nukes and CW's flying around a very desprite IDF Artillery unit with a spare round might use it in a last blaze of glory.

Sorry for the delay in replying. Took the kids to Disney for the Holidays and just got my first chance to get caught up.

Al

JDR Dragoon · 01-09-2009, 02:58 AM,

Okay. But why would units without any delivery capability have stockpiles of nuclear and chemical weapons lying around? Is it israeli doctrine to furnish every artillery unit with NBC weapons just in case they get overrun? And what about delivery? I can accept that a nuclear device can be set to self destruct, but Chemical agents have to be spread over a large area in order to be effective.