Anyone else ever had the game crash this way?

[Huib Versloot]

Had a weird game crash during a WF game turn. Below a part from the email I sent to my opponent.

I had in fact played most of the turn when the game crashed. That happened when I assaulted an empty hex. I had set up an assault for a certain hex near Tannenbusch and then shot at the unit that was to be assaulted with some units that would not participate in the assault. That enemy unit then retreated from the hex. I nevertheless pressed the assault button so my units would occupy the hex without triggering OP fire. That is when the game crashed to desktop.

Has anyone else experienced this so that we can call it a bug?

Huib

[junk2drive]

I had that in an LCG. When I reloaded the game, things were all messed up. The retreated unit was back in the hex but the attackers had lost their APs. Similar things on the rest of the map. No restore point to reload either other than the messed up autosave.

[USA_MX_1]

Yep, happened to me also while playing pbem. I had to restart my turn from the beginning...........

[Jason Petho]

Makes sense though, crashing, I mean.

It is still trying to trigger and assault, with nothing in it, I presume it sees a 0 value.

2 x 0 = crash.

Although, instead of crashing there should be an error pop up, which is good to know!

Jason Petho

[Mike Abberton]

Error message or crash, the game shouldn't allow the assault to proceed. It is circumventing the game mechanics to advance into an empty hex without drawing op fire.

[Huib Versloot]

I must add this type of crash did not happen in the Talonsoft version as far as I remember.
As far as the game mechanics are concerned; it is weird that an assault doesn't trigger op fire in any case. Nobody is circumventing anything as the assault was already set up. That the hex is now empty should be no reason to automatically cancel the assault.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

But, in essence, you did not "assault" the hex because it was not occupied by an enemy unit? :chin:
Not to split hairs, the hex could have had a unit that did not fire and was unseen, a hidden AT gun, or ATR platoon? Therefore the assault would have been an assault. It would have failed using the new extreme assault rules and your attacking units likely would have disrupted. :rolleyes: :chin: Wereas simply trying to walk into the hex would have exposed the 'hidden' units in the hex?
Now that would spoil someone's day? :smoke:

I've had crashes during play but none related to assaulting hexes, especially empty ones.
I do think, in the least, that assaulting an empty hex to get around opt fire is a bit gamey. But, that may be just me? :)

Take away the "oops I hit the assault button by mistake" issues and I'd have to question my opponent on that one.
It would sound too much like, "I forgot I left all those trucks parked in the road and blocked your access to the exit hexes in the rear" excuse?



RR

[Mike Abberton]

I must add this type of crash did not happen in the Talonsoft version as far as I remember.
As far as the game mechanics are concerned; it is weird that an assault doesn't trigger op fire in any case.

It is certainly debateable whether an assault should draw op fire. Depends on your idea of the relative positioning of the two forces prior to hitting the assault button. Are they really close where opfire might hit friendlies as well as enemies, or is the attacker still moving through his current hex.

I suspect it also has to do with the mechanics of making the assault. For example, when you would apply the op fire?

- When the unit is assigned to the assault but hasn't moved yet? Maybe, but it could become another gamey way to draw op fire by continuously assigning a unit to an assault that is likely immune to return op fire and then canceling the assault. Rinse, repeat, and draw all available opfire with no expenditure of APs.

- During the assault resolution itself? Probably a little less open to drawing op fire gameyness, but it gets more complex to assign opfire. Since you could have 6 units assaulting, who takes what op fire? I suppose the computer would randomly decide. It would make assaulting a lot tougher, since you wouldn't be able to call the assault off if the opfire hit you hard.

Nobody is circumventing anything as the assault was already set up. That the hex is now empty should be no reason to automatically cancel the assault.

Like Ed said, if it was truly an accident, no problem, but it could just as easily become a tactic. Call for an assault; hit the defender to get a retreat (or wipe the unit out) and empty the hex; advance for free. Rinse, repeat. Or it becomes a recurring "accident" for taking town or forest hexes where the player knows there are more troops in the next row of hexes.

Just as well to not allow it and remove it as a temptation.

[umbro]

I assume "extreme assault" option was on?

umbro

[Huib Versloot]

Extreme assault was on, yes.

I don't think it is really gamey, as you have to make so much preparations for a potentially succesful assault. By the time the enemy unit retreats, there are many moves one would have done differently had you known the enemy would retreat. In reality it is also possible that an enemy has just retreated before an assault and the assault still takes place.

I think everybody would also prefer to asault into a minefield instead of walking into it, as the assault will assure no explosions are triggered.
Is that gamey? Is it gamey to make tanks retreat and then shoot them in the back when you have armor facing on? I think all of the players to some extent use the game engine's limitations to their advantage.