Needs improvement - reformation of HQ units

cavalry corps · 01-05-2009, 05:23 AM,

I assume then the Russians have not got that far - he still left the VP locations near tye front - or maybe you still have some sort of solid line , in my game almost every axis unit s eliminated and Minsk has just the 1000vp hex left.

I have earlier turns in the file save

m

Glenn Saunders · (This post was last modified: 01-05-2009, 12:51 PM by Glenn Saunders.)

cavalry corps Wrote:Glenn

The game will be finishedin three turns I will send the file then

I have no before or after moments/ turns but you can see all the HQ unist in the Russina rear

Michael

If it is a PBEM game you will have BEFORE and AFTER turns attached to your messages or in ZIPs.

Nor do I see the logic in waiting for the next three turns to be played. If you have a file you think that shows an issue, waiting three more turns or any more turns for that matter will not provide any additioanl info and in fact it may obsure a possible cause.

Glenn

von Nev · 01-05-2009, 03:56 PM,

As the Germans playing Lowlander in Sgt Fury's M44 campaign I have not had a single HQ unit regenerate in the Russian's rear areas even through turn 126. However, Lowlander has done a very good job in sweeping his rear areas of any German stragglers. On turn 126 there are only 4 very small broken units in his entire rear area.

To Cavalry Corps question, we do have a continues front except on the German right flank where there is a lot of open territory (I think since I don't know/see the whole Russian lines back to the Pitch River).

Regarding Cavalry Corps specific issue, I think what he may be experiencing is that since the Germans are essentially eliminated from the entire map but the battle lines are still fluid, the corps and army HQ's when they regenerate need to go somewhere and the AI places them "behind" Russian lines.

Just my $0.02.

cavalry corps · 01-05-2009, 05:09 PM,

von Nev Wrote:As the Germans playing Lowlander in Sgt Fury's M44 campaign I have not had a single HQ unit regenerate in the Russian's rear areas even through turn 126. However, Lowlander has done a very good job in sweeping his rear areas of any German stragglers. On turn 126 there are only 4 very small broken units in his entire rear area.

To Cavalry Corps question, we do have a continues front except on the German right flank where there is a lot of open territory (I think since I don't know/see the whole Russian lines back to the Pitch River).

Regarding Cavalry Corps specific issue, I think what he may be experiencing is that since the Germans are essentially eliminated from the entire map but the battle lines are still fluid, the corps and army HQ's when they regenerate need to go somewhere and the AI places them "behind" Russian lines.

Just my $0.02.

Yes that seems about it but the corps and Army HQ are still needed for the other troops
M

cavalry corps · 01-06-2009, 12:14 AM,

I would like to say at this point all the HQ that are still alive formiing behind thge lines are Divisional or Corps but I am sure some Army ones had done so as well earlier

Awaiting the turn back before I send the file

Michael F

**Ricky B** · 01-06-2009, 01:02 AM,

Hey Michael,

Unless you have a turn BEFORE the HQs regenerate in the rear, presumably without a friendly unit, I don't see how a current turn will help anything. As nobody else seems to have regenerating HQs without a friendly subordinate unit, which I believe is the crux of your problem, then Glenn is going to need something showing this happen - as I mentioned before I set up a test for it and it just did not happen.

If you HQs are in the rear WITH friendly units, then there is no bug/problem. If that is the case, then maybe the problem you are bringing up is where an HQ comes back at, but as long as it is with friendlies I don't see what could be done to change it.

Anyway, I do believe as Glenn mentioned a before is critical to show a problem with regenerating in wrong spots or without a subordinate unit - if the issue is strictly that is regerated with a subordinate behind enemy lines, then I think that is just pure bad luck and would be it won't be changed in the game - it seems very historical if that is all the problem is.

Rick

Outlaw Josey Wales · 01-06-2009, 01:56 AM,

I think what cav is talking about are HQs regenerating alone behind Rus lines. I played a 1vs1 Minsk campaign before and as I pushed west, there were a few HQs regenerate alone behind my lines like they were partisans while any of the surviving units were in the German lines. The problem was my opp was using them to retake vp hexes. I just kept chasing them down and killing them again, I didn't know. But I do think that is what he is talking about. Regenerating is no problem as long as they appear with their subordinate units, not behind the lines like partisans. I experienced it, but didn't think nothing of it as far as maybe being a bug to bring to somebody's attn. That was one of my first campaigns and being new, I just went along and played.

cavalry corps · 01-06-2009, 02:32 AM,

This is the note I sent with the file to Glenn,

I think the problem is that Corps HQ are forming on subordinate Div HQ which have reformed on an isolated unit - so corps HQ are no longer any use , this caused me some trouble . It would be better if a Divisional and corps HQ reformed on the highest HQ counter on the map ?? rather than on a 10 man isolated company.

So my idea is that an HQ ( all HQ ) always appers from its next highest HQ ( on the map) not an odd inf co or AT gun that could be along way away behind the lines - seems more realsitic???

Michael

Liquid_Sky · 01-06-2009, 03:20 AM,

Of course, when playing against a human, there is some control. Since HQ's are worth a lot of VP's they are usually not destroyed en mass, and I scratch my head to try and remember if I have ever lost a corp/Army/front HQ since they are usually pretty far back from the front lines, and can easily move back to get away from trouble...

**Ricky B** · 01-06-2009, 06:00 AM,

Okay, thanks Michael. Your thoughts make a lot of sense, and if there isn't an issue with them just magically appearing as this thread seemed to imply, then a change to existing behaviour would potentially make sense. I think the HQs regenerating with subordinate units was based on them providing HQ elements to help man the HQ, or maybe a rallying point for survivors, which makes sense in some cases, but having an HQ reform at a parent HQ or the highest (I like the parent HQ myself) also makes sense, implying the unit is reformed from rear area elements.

OJW, if you are really seeing enemy HQs popping up in your rear, by themselves, that needs passed along by your opponent if possible as it shouldn't happen and in tests I ran, as I stated, it won't happen either - so if it is there is something specific about it causing that to happen which needs tracked down. Again, I ran a couple of tests and did NOT have any HQs come back if all their subordinate units were destroyed - that was over a 20 turn test that I ran a few times, of course a 144 turns could potentially be different although that is unlikely.

Liquid Sky, agreed unless the vast bulk of units are pocketed, I think the mass extinction of the high level HQs is more a player use issue normally, but sometimes they get trapped and there is nothing to do about it then - as opposed to using them to help plug weak spots in the line.

Rick