general attacking questions

[Bacillus98]

Hello. I recently picked up some PzC games to see what this war game engine was all about. I am impressed, and it seems rather addicting to say the least! I have skimmed the rules and tried a few solitaire short games in Sicily 43 and Stalingrad 42. Some questions I have are:

1. Are the Sicily landings at Gela (Dime Force) supposed to hurt the Allies badly? Granted its my first few times at the scenario, but when the big red one division lands most of the units are disrupted. It seems to take forever for them to undisrupt, so I cannot assault the paltry Italian coastal units, only use direct fire. Even my paratroopers undisrupt faster than the amphibious landing divisions. This seems to play in the hands of the Goring Division, which only gets closer and closer to the beaches. It's turn 5 and I haven't been able to move any allied units off the beach except for a few that managed to squeeze inland. Total Casualties are around 600, which seems rather high, and this is before the Herman Goring division has showed up. What's the best way as an attacker to approach an amphibious landing and have units undisrupt as fast as possible?

2. How does one attack with Russian Units in the East front games? For example I tried the Uranus scenario. I just wanted to practice attacking the Romanian divisions. A lot of them are in bunkers, which seems suicidal to attack. It seems to me that direct fire for the Russians is not their strong point, so should I only just assault with them? Assaulting undisrupted enemy units hurts very badly, which usually takes the attacking Russian battalion out of the picture at least temporarily. Should I only hammer away with artillery until the strong points w/ enemy units disrupt?

Any help with these questions would be great!

[Bidermann]

With your 2nd point, Russians love to fall apart prity quick.So I try and pound an enemy unit i with as much Art I can find and tank fire then move the infantry in to attack,Bunkers I just avoid they take so damn long to knock out,saying that if you surround them the bunker does fall a bit quicker.Try and stack the Russians 3 - 4units in one hex they function with abit more fire power last a bit longer.

[Dog Soldier]

When bunker busting using artillery and AT weapons to soften the target does help. In cases where you have to take a bunker, as the Soviets, remember the Soviet Army in WW2 was a hammer, not a foil.
Assault with the maximum number of men you can bring to bear on the hex. Be sure they are all the same division, though. Assaults by mixed Soviet divisions against formed Axis bunker defenders will only get you practice writing Dear Mr and Mrs Ivanov letters.

To quote Guderian...
Do not feel with the fingers, hit with the fist!

Dog soldier

[Dog Soldier]

As for Gela landings, the designer notes explain why Allied forces land disrupted. They should recover quickly if kept out of the fight for a turn. You do not need your entire force to overwhelm the Italian coastal units. Once you have a bridgehead established and some HQ's ashore, you can form up and move inland a ways to meet the HG force. Depending on the skill on the German player, the US forces will have a rough time if the HG division trys to split the Gela beachhead and defeat the landings in detail. This is where air and naval support will save the army. These resources are limited, so pick your targets for maximum effect is slowing the HG division's drive.

Dog Soldier

[fastphil]

The first thing you should have discovered is the Disruption rules the game. As you have said you can not assault if you are disrupted. Also you will find it near impossible to hold ground agaist a near equal foe and your direct/indirect fire will be less effective.
The Soviet army is built around assault- once you have softened up your opponent a If you want to eliminate enemy units disrupt them, surround them, and then assault them. Since they have no retreat they will take additional loses. The better way, if possible is disupt them, give them a retreat path you control while isolating them and then assault them. Most times they will retreat giving you the hex, they will be disrupted, isolated and unable to become undisrupted (because of isolated). Then you close in, leave them no retreats and assault them in the more favorable terrain. If not favorable terrain keep moving them back until they are in more favorable terrain and then go in for the kill.

In Sicily use your naval, air and artillery to disrupt the coastal units. Any assault capable unit should them be able to retreat them.
But remember the Allies landed in a storm unprotected beaches and this was their first landings where they would face the Axis on the beaches and not Vichy. The Big Red 1 did not start out being the killer elite but was honed in combat so you might have higher expectations then you should at this point in the war.

[raizer]

Id also look closely at the soft vs assault values-esp if you using volcano alts...I love the alts but it is taking a getting used to. I playing my first game with the alt vs dog and Im finding its a bit of a different game-for example the sov tanks are very nice at shooting infantry-so much so that forgoing an assault with the 34s for an extra turn of s hooting is very appealing

[Bacillus98]

Thank you all for the replies. A few things are unclear. As the Russians, do you only assault disrupted units? Sometimes the artillery and tanks wont disrupt German defenders. Assaulting them seems very costly if enemy units are undisrupted.

Recon spotting rule: I am not sure how this works. It says it can use its visibility at a cost of mp to spot units, but many times the recon unit only can see one hex away, making recon a matter of bumping into the enemy with a weak unit.

Lastly in Sicily, do you guys recombine the companies of the 82 airborne? Companies of 30 to 50 men seem rather fragile. There are also German battalions with 700 plus men that can be broken down as well. The problem lies in when to combine/recombine.

[Liquid_Sky]

Assualting: Multiply the number of men by the assualt value of the attacking force...do the same for the defender...(vehicles count as 10men each)

Modify by a half for each of: Disruption, Low Ammo, Digging in...

Form an odds...attack/defense.

If you are undisrupted in the assualt...and the defender is completely disrupted, you will take the hex.

I find you need to have more then 1:1 to cause more casualties then you take.

What this also means that if you take an A quality unit and assualt a hex which is filled with Disrupted units...you will take the hex...but you may suffer a lot of casualties whilst doing it.

I once assualted a beach hex in Normandy with a single battalion of German B quality infantry because all the americans therein were disrupted. I probably only had a 1:3 at best, but since he was disrupted (and couldnt retreat due to stacking) I killed half his men (about 600) while losing about 100 (with massive fatigue loss as well, since it was night)..

[Liquid_Sky]

Recon Spotting is a range from the unit, with a percentage chance of seeing (regardless of LOS) out from your hex. There is no real formula in the rule book, but it does tell you it is based on Range, Terrain, Strength of Recon unit, and whether it is disrupted or not.

And then, if you spot a unit, there is a 50% chance that it shows up as a ? instead.

[Liquid_Sky]

Combining into larger formations...well...that should be (and was!) a topic in its own right. In a nut shell....a combined unit takes less fatigue then its components. So if you spread out with components, those components will cease to be battle formations faster as they take horrible fatigue.

But sometimes you need to hold the enemy back for a while, until reinforcements arrive...

and that depends on circumstance. In Sicily, the paras are kind of a waste of time, except as breakfast snack for Herman Goering..