Guys:
I really don't want to wade in on one side or the other. While this game was one I co-ordinated the playtest for, it was mainly researched by Greg Smith from HPS. And as many of you have likely read before, teh PzC\MC Bridge rules were really tweaked to their current state for this game.
You see here we - (this i the ROYAL "WE" - not me specficially) had a lot of data on several crossing points, several different Eng Units from various divisions of various quality and TO&E.
I vaguely recall John Tiller and Greg Smith discussing how we could use Quality to account for and make the game give more or less historical results for crossing times. I remember some one saying one of these Eng units - no idea which one - had virtually NO Heavy Equipment - just Picks and Axes to Cut trees and to create the crossing in poor weather and human condition - it was bloddy amazing really they made a bridge at all in at least one case. Again - no idea which one it was.
I recall in game terms it seems like forever getting the bridges built and repeated the cycle over and over so as to get the times to be at least close to the historcal time to built the bridges - erring on the side of the Germans not to make them superior or unbeatable, but because it is no fun sitting behind the river waiting for the die roll to make the bridge.
So - even though it seems like a long time, I can tell you in most cases the bridges are and will be created faster than they were historcially.
Now for the hell of it I did a WEBSEARCH on Bulge Our River crossings and found this one interesting reference to share with you.
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http://www.nat-military-museum.lu/pagesh...trails.php
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At this very place, where today's small bridge spans the Our river to link Germany and Luxembourg, German army engineers constructed an improvised heavy infantry bridge, capable to bear the weight of smaller armored fighting vehicles and artillery prime movers. Prior to the German December 16, 1944 surprise attack, terrain reconnaissance had confirmed that, because of the gentle slope on the opposite side of the Our river banks, this most probably the best suited location for the construction of a heavier infantry bridge in the sector. The bridge was intended to act as the main crossing point of the divisional artillery (partially horse-drawn), as well as the 18-ton "Hetzer" tank destroyers and other tracked vehicles.
The Our river, which is normally less than 80 cm deep, was much swollen then, due to heavy rainfall in early December 1944. Its banks on both sides were very muddy. According to available statistics, the Our river was 1.50 - 2.30 meters deep, then; much to deep and too much current for wading the vehicles across.
It was only after the 05:30 a.m. half hour artillery barrage on opposite enemy positions on December 16, 1944 that the engineers of the 352nd VGD's own engineer battalion, supported by additional Corps engineer troops began transporting the available prepositioned steel elements of the bridging equipment to the Our for assembling. As not sufficient equipment had reached the supply points behind the "Westwall", it took until the evening of December 17, before the bridge was declared to be derivable.
Lt. Günter Stottmeister, who as a company commander of the 352nd Engineer battalion. reports:
"Unfortunately the promised bridge material had not been delivered on account o supply difficulties, so that we would have to build a wooden makeshift bridge that would bear the weight of the "Hetzers."........... The artillery fire began at 05:30 a.m. As quickly as possible, with efforts unimaginable today, trees up to 50 centimeters in diameter were felled with axes, two man saws, and NSU power chainsaws. They were moved down to the shore of the Our with winch and line, where the actual construction of the bridge began at daybreak. Meanwhile, though, numerous assault troops of the grenadier regiment had crossed the high waters by means of rubber boats and infantry footbridges (in the immediate neighborhood of our construction site and in nearby Ammeldingen) and were marching forward. We would clearly hear the noise of battle on the opposite side. A first attempt to equip the bridge with a central pier built of lumber failed. The swift current at this point tore the construction apart, even before it could be fastened. Since time was critical, the central pier was dispensed with and the bridge was built with two reinforced end piers. The construction of the various components using improvised equipment, and with trees as the raw material, went on until twilight on December 16. Then we suddenly came under heavy mortar fire aimed at the site of the bridge. The American defensive fire forced us to stay under cover for about two hours ........... The bridgebuilding continued all night with artificial moonlight provided by heavy anti-aircraft searchlight batteries and sporadic U.S. artillery- and mortar fire. The wounded were taken by dozens to Dr. Krause at the battalion's command-post bunker. Torn arms and legs were amputated before my eyes .... it was horrible.
Toward noon of December 17, parts of the wooden frame could finally be joined together and reinforced after they had been pushed across the Our. To increase the bridge's carrying capacity, another layer of tree trunks was put over it, for we did not know if the bridge could hold 25 tons of weight. That evening we had reached the point at which the bridge was declared to be driveable, and the first "Hetzer" tank nervously drove over the makeshift bridge. It held! Other tanks followed, then several RSO towing tractors with antitank and artillery guns in tow. A great number of our own engineer vehicles had been so damaged by the American artillery that they were impossible to maneuver or totally useless. Thus we had only a few trucks to transport our material as we marched farther ahead. All through December 18, other units of the division followed with their heavy equipment, mainly artillery guns, most of them still horsedrawn, a few full-tracked vehicles and supply trucks, as well as the field kitchens of the infantry companies. Sine the bridge had absolutely to remain capable of being used for supplying, the greater part of what remained operational of the 352nd Engineer battalion, served at Gentingen to secure it. For this, we only had mortars and machine guns."
(Preceding is excerpted from the book "The battle of the Bulge in Luxembourg/Volume 1 by Roland Gaul)
A similar, but more elaborate bridge was constructed a little further upriver at the small town of Roth an der Our by the Pi. Bn 5 of the 5th Fallschirmjägerdivision. It was completed on December 18, bringing the heavy assault guns and divisional artillery across the Our. Both bridges were constantly harassed in early and mid-January 1945 by U.S. artillery fire as well as by fighter aircraft of the 9th U.S. airforce. They were often damaged, but always repaired, serving by towards the latter part of January during the retreat of the beaten German troops to take up new defensive positions behind the "Westwall."
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Hope you find this interesting and given the size of the Our River, you have to wonder how in the world the same engine works somewhat OK for the Dniepr in Russia where one poster was complaining how long the river to bridge.
Once again - if it took several days, I still think the game is being kind - VERY KIND in fact.
Anyway - I think the rules work OK and however you want to justify in you own minds is ok with me. A very interesting discussion all the same though.
Glenn
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