ATG's at the front line conundrum

[Bacillus98]

Two cases that trouble me in deciding what to do as a new player to PzC:

1).As the attacker, you have an infantry unit with an ATG gun. You want to advance, but bringing your atg gun is tactically unwise due to the damage it will incur because it must travel in T-mode to keep pace. This is common in games like N44 where the Americans have atg's stacked with companies near the front line.


2). As the defender, you must stop the incursion of enemy tanks at the front line. You desperately need some anti armor capability, so you rush atg's to the front. The caveat is the only way to get them to the front is to be in travel mode, which decimates you gun battery, giving your opponent free VP's. Another way the defender loses ATG's is the classic "oh snap, I need to retreat". Putting your atg's in t-mode to scurry away only causes major losses on your precious defense commodity.

Why model atg's at all if this seems the case? Would it be better to have values incorporated into defense values instead? How do you PzC players deal with this issue?

[jonnymacbrown]

AT guns are defensive weapons and you need to use them like that. On the attack, place them where an opponent might counter attack and hope that you've put them in a good spot. I wouldn't worry too much about losing them in travel mode, they are no more vulnerable in T-mode than anything else you've got. Jonny

[jonnymacbrown]

As for bugging out under fire, well Son, you are going to take some hits thereabouts. I'd say break down the accompanying infantry battalion into 3 companies, use one of the companies to draw enemy fire, and after the enemy has taken all their cracks, well then mount up your guns and pull the hell out of there. Jonnymac

[Liquid_Sky]

On an offensive, I use my AT-Guns to fire on enemy bunker/pillboxes. I will dig some infantry in front of the hex, then move my guns and deploy. They may take some damage on the way in, and will definetly take some damage sitting there, but they will be very useful in trying to disrupt the bunker defenders...especially in an _alt scenerio.

[Liquid_Sky]

I should add that on my normandy campaign, as the defending germans, I almost exclusively fire on AT guns whenever I can, and have so far killed 1633 guns (we are on turn 185) and have only lost 930. AT-guns are a great source of vp's :)

[jonnymacbrown]

That's interesting Sky, but are you going to stop the enemy that? jonnymac

[jonnymacbrown]

I mean are you going to stop the enemy that way? Will this tactic work? When those Yankees come at you Sky, it won't be AT guns doing the damage. jonnymac

[Liquid_Sky]

Actually, for the last um...probably around 50 turns, our front lines have hardly moved...I am dug in bocage mostly, which is a 90% defense. I have at least one battalion in each hex, and a lot of them have two. We are essentially attriting each other, where I am doing more damage to him then he is to me (for the moment, but as the turns go by, it is going more in his favour). I still own Caen, and the fields in front of it. Early on, I pushed the british para's over the canal/river and own the Orne bridgehead. Oh yeah, the turn is 185 and its the first day after the great storm where the weather is clear, and the visibility greater then 2.

I get a lot of vp's with my artillery, hitting hexes he just moved into (not dug in). And I always hit the guns when I see them in travel mode.

[Lien Leposh]

I should add that on my normandy campaign, as the defending germans, I almost exclusively fire on AT guns whenever I can, and have so far killed 1633 guns (we are on turn 185) and have only lost 930. AT-guns are a great source of vp's :)

Hmmm, going preferentially for the guns.
Have you not been sussed out on that score and had them used to distract you from other types of threat... yet? ;)

Do you not consider that to be a bit of a "gamey" tactic because they are such an easy source of VPs or, as a relative newcomer here, am I being naiive?

[LBouton]

I think its well recognized that ATG are particularly vulnerable when bugging out or supporting the attack. How often have all of us, retreated supporting infantry and saluted the poor ATG with orders to fight to the last man (recognizing that if you saddle up and try to skedaddle, they might be completely destroyed).

Depending on the enemy forces being confronted, one possible tactic to consider is to get the enemy units to fire first at other, less vulnerable units (the old soak off attack). Since units can only fire three times, then if you get the opposing forces to fire at other units, you can saddle up and move with out incurring damage. If you are facing a mountain of enemy units stacked next to your ATG, you may just have to kiss the chaps goodbye and promise to mail their letters for them.

Larry