Rules regarding exiting units

[Scud]

Sorry, I'm sure this has been discussed, but it recently came up in a game I was playing, so I thought it wouldn't hurt to go over it again, since my opponent was honestly unaware of these rules.

I was under the impression that exiting any units from the map (not including from an exit hex) was considered "against the rules", unless agreed upon by both sides. Even if agreeing to exit non-combatant units, does anyone ever agree to allow exiting combat units, including headquarters, in order to avoid SP loss? No, right?

Also, noncombat units should not be allowed to spot or block roads, correct?

Is placing a truck in a non-blocking position within view of a road hex, even if in a rear area, considered spotting? (I hate to admit it, but I do that one all the time, but only in rear areas.)

[Jason Petho]

Sorry, I'm sure this has been discussed, but it recently came up in a game I was playing, so I thought it wouldn't hurt to go over it again, since my opponent was honestly unaware of these rules.

I was under the impression that exiting any units from the map (not including from an exit hex) was considered "against the rules", unless agreed upon by both sides. Even if agreeing to exit non-combatant units, does anyone ever agree to allow exiting combat units, including headquarters, in order to avoid SP loss? No, right?

That is a typical ROE to not exit units (of any type, unless allowed via a exit hex), but when playing a new player, it is always wise to confirm you're both on the same page regarding rules of engagement. They do vary.

Is placing a truck in a non-blocking position within view of a road hex, even if in a rear area, considered spotting? (I hate to admit it, but I do that one all the time, but only in rear areas.)

Would you place them there if you didn't see a "?" on the map providing some general intel? Probably not.

Jason Petho

[Reddog]

All units included in a battle should remain on the battlefield until the end... IMHO & obviously if there's no "objective exit hex".

It's my thought that any non-combatant unit is still worth points if eliminated so aren't we then depriving players of those points? It some rare cases the extra points gained by their elimination could make or break a victory or break a tie.

Whenever possible (I'll admit it's very rare that I can do this without getting caught) that's the first thing I do with recon is race them to the rear to look for just these types of targets. Any commander that has excess non-combatant units in the rear either protects them and/or take a chance of losing them.

Of course as Jason has already said it should probably be in everyone's ROE before the fighting begins.

[Otto von Blotto]

I must admit I don’t see a problem with removing non combat units (trucks, carriers and things that can’t fire in offence or defence) from the map, in fact I would expect them to be exited as they are there just to move combat units forwards or backwards and have no other purpose in the game as they can’t be used in battle and shouldn’t be used for spotting they are just hanging around waiting for a luck artillery shell to get them and that doesn’t make any sense to me.

I seem to remember from the manual the hints section on pbem play by Eric Larsen encourages removing them if they aren’t needed to transport units, and forcing them to stay puts the Russians at a great disadvantage as they have a larger proportion of trucks and horse drawn movers that other sides as they don’t have many APCs.

I think if I’m in that bad a position that an opponent has reached my trucks I’ve lost the game by a long margin anyway and a few extra points I might have removed aren’t going to help, and if I can catch a truck that my opponent hasn’t retreated or removed then that’s my good luck, the edge of the map isn’t the edge of the world and no commander worth his salt, would leave un-armed units hanging around in danger it just has no realism.

[Montana Grizz]

I have an agreement with all my constant opponents to allow the exit of any and all transports.

I don't bother in small scenario's, but in the larger ones, clicking through 200 trucks just drives me nuts.

I've never played a scenario in which I thought the designer intended for unloaded transports to be destroyed to accomplish a result.

Now, I have won games because I have destroyed a host of unloaded transports simply because my opponent left them hanging in the middle of the map. Occasionally I happen upon unloaded transports while making some flanking movement, but I have never gone looking for transports intentionally as a strategy.

I agree this option should be agreed upon, but refuse to play something like Borosov without the option of exiting transports.

Pat

[Scud]

[quote=Scud]
Is placing a truck in a non-blocking position within view of a road hex, even if in a rear area, considered spotting? (I hate to admit it, but I do that one all the time, but only in rear areas.)

Would you place them there if you didn't see a "?" on the map providing some general intel? Probably not.

Jason Petho

Jason, not sure what you mean. I don't place them to gain intel as such, but when choosing a "truck farm" area, I try to find an area that's difficult for a recon vehicle to get to and I try to place a truck in a location to it's approach where he can see imminent threats (usually no more then a couple of hexes). I guess my reasoning is if I'm a driver waiting for orders, wouldn't I want to be in an area where I could see an approaching threat to myself? I consider this completely separate from placing a truck on a wooded mountaintop hex close to front lines who's LOS is 10 or 20 hexes. That's clearly spotting.

Nonetheless, I'll stop doing it if it's considered foul play.

[Von Earlmann]

Remove the non combat vehicles..........especially in the large scenarios(good idea to keep enough for future movement though)........always leave the HQs etc on the map......and yes you had better protect them.........I like to use AA units for rear and HQ security if possible.....I will always turn off the op-fire on HQ units also.

VE

[Hawk Kriegsman]

I almost always remove transports from the map. It is just common sense. You transport the units near the front lines unload them and have the transports withdraw back from whence they came. Happened all the time in battle and there is no reason why you should't do it in a game.

Additionally why can't you withdraw other units from the map?

It is the withdrawing person's issue.

Looking at it in a realistic way; I would submit to you that no unit would just arbitarily stop in the battle because they where at the edge of their operational area (ie the map). Does anyone really think a unit would have stopped running when faced with elimination as the other option?

That being said I do not remove combat units from the map.

Thanx!

Hawk

[Herr Straße Laufer]

I try to use common sense and what I've read of common practices on the WWII battle field.

1.Non-combat units can move off the map and away from combat.
2.Non-combat units do not block, spot, or "get in the way" to aid in overruns.

There is not a standing club ROE concerning non-combat units. Though, some tournaments had specific rules regarding which units could, or could not, exit the map.

So far I have not had problems, except in one match, in all the games I have reported.



RR

[Chuck10mtn]

I move my truck to the back and then exit them. Hell I wish I had a button to delete them from the map as soon as they've unloaded there troops, I hate moving them all to a spot on the map to exit them.

Chuck