HtH Etiquette

bennyb · 08-01-2009, 10:23 AM,

Is it considered cheating or bad sportsmanship to open a scenario and view both side's initial scenario setup? I'm playing the Allies in Operation Lightfoot but I've got no idea where the enemy starts, or how deep the minefield is. Historically this may be accurate, but for competitive play does it balance/unbalance the game?

Ben

Dog Soldier · (This post was last modified: 08-01-2009, 02:28 PM by Dog Soldier.)

Search the forums. There are many opinions on this subject already posted. It really comes down to a personal preference. If you like to play a sceanrio blind, ask the other player before starting if they are familiar with the scenario.

Just about all scenarios are well thought out in terms of initial setup. There are very few where a first turn perfect move can ruin the game.

It is hard not to become familiar since many scenarios are smaller portions of the bigger scenarios. That said, there is really very little good studying the initial setup can do in longer games (over ten turns) as an experienced player will know this and move his units accordingly.

Dog Soldier

Scar · 08-01-2009, 10:48 AM,

There is no problem with looking at the scenario from both sides, in fact it is expected, unless you have agreed in advance to play it "blind."

**Ricky B** · 08-01-2009, 11:42 AM,

The only thing I would consider a breach of etiquette would be opening the scenario as the attacker, memorizing starting locations of vulnerable enemy units, and then using air recon to spot them and hit them with air or artillery. That I don't consider to be sporting. I personally avoid studying anything at the start, enjoy the fog of war too much, but will open it and just get a feel for the overall run of the lines, without tracking down specific formations on the enemy side - but as was said above with experience of a specific scenario you will develop a feel for the areas of threat anyway.

Rick

**Mr Grumpy** · 08-01-2009, 07:45 PM,

Talk to your opponent and ask what they feel is acceptable or not, as Brian says there are many different opinions on what is acceptable practise or not and if you can find an opponent(s) who think the same as yourself then some of these potential issues can be avoided. ;)

Marquo · 08-01-2009, 11:00 PM,

"memorizing starting locations of vulnerable enemy units, and then using air recon to spot them and hit them with air or artillery. That I don't consider to be sporting."

My first pbem game many eons ago was Kharkov. I was the Soviet. I was playing an experienced player. Being a novice, I thought that touching any of the fixed units in T mode was dubious ethically in terms of the game, so I left them that way. Well...the next file from my M$$#@r F%^(%$G opponent started with a long prologue praising the efforts of the glorious German luftwaffe which had found an exposed park of unsuspecting Soviet tanks and left most of them a burning junk heap. Fiery

To this day I remember that lesson and always warn/agree with my opponent that I/he will not air recon and attack units initially set up in T mode or critical artillery pieces(especially important in Smolensk) on the first move.

Marquo :)

SuperIke · (This post was last modified: 08-02-2009, 12:52 AM by SuperIke.)

Personally, I don't usually open the other side to see the starting positions, but I don't believe it's a problem if someone has a look (not talking about writing down positions or memorizing units though). In any case, sometimes I do have some idea of the opponent's starting positions since I might have played that side in a scenario against the AI.

Regarding firing on units in T mode in initial setup: isn't that more of a scenario design issue ? I've never designed a scenario, but forcing a lot of units in T mode at the start when you don't have the first move is not very good design in my mind.

Marquo · 08-02-2009, 05:06 AM,

Usually it a column of units that are due to be released on a certain date because that is where they arrived historically- or the opponent gets there too early or the the column is air reconed, then it is gets ripped to shreds.

It is tough to account for everything - look at the Koesun setup to see kms of units not yet really there, but placed on the map in T mode ready to be there...:rolleyes:

Anyway, best thing to do is to place them all into deployed mode immediately; I hate house rules because often there are no limits - S'41 needs a house rule so the Soviet can save his good arrtillery on move one.

Marquo

Dog Soldier · 08-02-2009, 08:27 AM,

The units are really not there until their release date.

The units set up in travel mode on most games are reinforcements that would arrive later depending on their release date. This is a design issue that Glenn has noted in a post some time ago on this board.

The issue is with the reinforcement dialog box. The limited size of the dialog box means that it becomes increasingly difficult to organize the reinforcements as the number of formations increases. The designer has more control and can visually inspect his work if the formations are placed on boad in a FIXED status.

From what I have read on this from our community over the years, is as Marquo states in post #6 above. Convey to the the other player that attacking FIXED units before their release is considered unwelcome play, taking advantage of a design issue.

Dog Soldier

Dog Soldier · 08-02-2009, 08:33 AM,

Marquo Wrote:S'41 needs a house rule so the Soviet can save his good arrtillery on move one.

Marquo

Most players agree to a moratorium on Axis air recon or attacks for the first three turns in a CG of S41. This allows the Soviet player time to reshuffle, dig in his artillery and move AA assets, at a cost. To take advantage of this the Soviet player will give up a few turns of firing.

Dog Soldier