Site rules and rules carved in stone

[Von Luck]

Likewise Erik R Zimmerman is a good and honest one of the old guard who doesnt play to much but pops up now and again.

[John Given]

Thanks for the post David - I've personally been meaning to get one of those for a while, but I keep putting it off.

Pat, I'm sure you're as honest a player as any on the boards, but nobody should really be replaying moves or turns. Folks can call you out for it, your rep can take a hit - you could even get banned.

As far as your fears of wrecking a game on turn one, remember that cautious recon is the way to go. For folks who have played me (especially my teammates), they will say "John sure is paranoid about taking casualties." Yep - because that's how you lose games. Be extremely cautious about losses you rack up, and be aware of what is causing your losses in a particular scenario. In most battles, it's enemy infantry and artillery that are the real killers, not enemy tanks.

Select ONE "expendable" infantry unit, and move him as far as possible in the direction you want to go. Even a double-timed infantry unit on a road can often move 5 hexes (if he doesn't go uphill). Move units like this out ahead of the rest of your force - nay - ALWAYS lead with infantry units at every opportunity. Vehicles, even trucks, are valuable, precious things that should always be protected.

This advice mainly applies to scenarios where you enter from the board edge into hostile territory, but it could also apply in any and all situations where you need to enter hostile territory that hasn't been scouted. Actually, except for a lot of early-war East Front scenarios (where you have huge maps but sparse numbers of units), I advise against scouting with vehicles. Use infantry - and never use engineers to scout or spot...they are rare and precious, and they also move more slowly.

Finally, if you even think your entry area is under observation, click on every tank and make sure there are no infantry passengers. Then unload all vehicles. Don't forget to make sure all your occupied hexes are unstacked (12 sp's max - and don't forget to include any wrecks).

Once you've secured a perimeter / bridgehead, you can move guys around in transports in your safe areas. And be sure to keep an eye on your flanks!! Otherwise, your "safe areas" will quickly disappear, possibly due to enemy recon. Perimeter security is mandatory if your opponent counterattacks. I can often win scenarios by striking enemy flank areas.

Last but not least - don't attack too aggressively. I've seen players do this to me often, and a savage, brutal attack rarely works. The "finesse" method (micromanaged attack) usually is best. Mounting friendly casualties are usually the first sign you're doing something wrong.

Hope this helped.

[Troll]

First I have been playing this game since it came out with talon soft and to get more precise have been playing this game when it came out in board version in 1970 so I think that I am well versed when I comes to LOS rules, additionally I have played countless F2F games, so you know NOTHING about what you are talking about. Second, when I say hidden I mean hidden, not in any LOS, and completely concealed , and as an example, units surrounded by woods, can you comprehend that Mr. Hawk? Apparently you can not. Third, I made no accusations against anyone, but it seems you want to be the spokes person for ME and put words in my mouth. The game I had with RZ was a great game hands down. Maybe you should stick to the topic and STOP throwing peoples names around like you throw out your trash. Third, I have played games that were not even reported, so why don’t you reach into your bag of names and pull a few more out and place them in my mouth. You are very fast to make accusations about me but you have no problem dropping names that you and unsubstantiated I might add, accuse me of calling a cheat. So I suggest you stick to the topic and refrain from name dropping. The topic was players replaying their turn over and over, can you comprehend that Mr. Hawk? Your naivety is only out classed by your arrogance. So if you are that naive to think that what I stated can mot be done then you keep your head buried in the sand. And if a person has to use this type of tactic to win then they have no skill as a player. I was the person playing not you, so once again you know nothing, in fact less than nothing about what was going on in the game in question. It seems that people who speak the loudest or try to change the issue with misdirection have something to hide. Perhaps you use this tactic. I myself do not. 1 download 1 turn, it is that simple, and so are all of your comments. If voicing my opinion about how a game can be compromised is against the rules then there is no free speech? But what you surely did was to accuse me of accusing two players of cheating and I never mentioned anyone’s name, must surely be against the rules. :censored:

Troll

[Hawk Kriegsman]

First I have been playing this game since it came out with talon soft and to get more precise have been playing this game when it came out in board version in 1970 so I think that I am well versed when I comes to LOS rules, additionally I have played countless F2F games, so you know NOTHING about what you are talking about.

Pardon me then. I have only been playing the game since it came out in 1997. I defray to your vast experience playing the board game version.

Funny though I check boardgamegeek and they have no mention of the capaign series as a board game. Lucky you to have a game that no one else has.

Second, when I say hidden I mean hidden, not in any LOS, and completely concealed , and as an example, units surrounded by woods, can you comprehend that Mr. Hawk? Apparently you can not.

Then how did he find your units exactly. By bumping into them? Did you save the turns? Did you send them to the moderators? No probably not.

Third, I made no accusations against anyone, but it seems you want to be the spokes person for ME and put words in my mouth.

Actually you did in a round about way. VonLuck saw it. Sad that you did not.

The game I had with RZ was a great game hands down.

Great.

Maybe you should stick to the topic and STOP throwing peoples names around like you throw out your trash.

Maybe you may want to calm down son and not tell me what to post. Not your job to do that.

Third, I have played games that were not even reported, so why don’t you reach into your bag of names and pull a few more out and place them in my mouth.

LMGDAO!! I am not even sure what this means but it is funny. Yipee you have played games that are unreported. So have I and so have most of the people on the ladder.

You are very fast to make accusations about me but you have no problem dropping names that you and unsubstantiated I might add, accuse me of calling a cheat.

You did call people a cheat right here.

Quote:
It was obvious that he was playing his turn over and over again until he got the results he wanted.

So I suggest you stick to the topic and refrain from name dropping. The topic was players replaying their turn over and over, can you comprehend that Mr. Hawk?

Again telling me how to post. Not your job son. You might want to refrain from doing that. I have seen people get a suspension for that you know :whis:. Best leave telling me how to post.

Your naivety is only out classed by your arrogance.

Name calling. First class well done.

So if you are that naive to think that what I stated can mot be done then you keep your head buried in the sand.

Only one question here. What is a mot?

And if a person has to use this type of tactic to win then they have no skill as a player.

On this we agree.

I was the person playing not you, so once again you know nothing, in fact less than nothing about what was going on in the game in question.

Oh ok. Keep ranting.

It seems that people who speak the loudest or try to change the issue with misdirection have something to hide. Perhaps you use this tactic.

Now you accuse me directly of cheating. Nice I'll alert the moderators myself. I would tell you to go :censored::censored: but I would get in trouble I think.

I myself do not. 1 download 1 turn, it is that simple, and so are all of your comments.

Yet another name calling. Very good.

If voicing my opinion about how a game can be compromised is against the rules then there is no free speech?

I never said it was agianst the rules.

But what you surely did was to accuse me of accusing two players of cheating and I never mentioned anyone’s name, must surely be against the rules. :censored:

Facts are facts. You stated you were not playing for a while because you where the victim of cheating. You mention the great games you played against zap and TJD. You have only played four different players. Looks like you where accusing the other two of cheating.

Troll

Yes agreed.

Thanx!

Hawk

[Mr. Guberman]

Maybe I'm missing something here.

As I think about it (that is a dubious proposition in itself...though)...how does the number of saves even relate to the number of restarts?...and then, what does the number of saves indicate that is nefarious in any way? Restarting the same scenario from a saved point can in no way be regarded as cheating.
i.e. start the game, wife says it's time do do this...save and quit, halfway through the scenario. Restart the game (NOT the scenario) and pick up the saved scenario and continue your move, save and stop again, restart the game (NOT the scenario) open the saved scenario infinitum...that is not cheating.

Quiting a scenario, deleting it and reloading it to play again is cheating...the number of saves has no relation to that...and a good cheater will not have any saves recorded in his final masterpiece of a turn...right? Regardless of how many times he played and deleted and replayed the scenario.

Am I missing another avenue of cheating?...relating to recorded saves? It appears, to me, that the number of saves does not indicate any kind of cheating...just poorly managed time...or someone who does his turns in multiple increments of 2 minutes or so...

Cheers
Curt

[TJD]

Maybe I'm missing something here.

how does the number of saves even relate to the number of restarts?

It doesn't have any relation so far as I can tell.

...and then, what does the number of saves indicate that is nefarious in any way? Restarting the same scenario from a saved point can in no way be regarded as cheating.

Regarding how saving relates to cheating: I assume that frequent saves would allow a player to inch forward in a scenario and revert to the saved copy if he blunders into unexpected trouble and trips the Claymores as it were. It would allow, arguably, no-risk reconnaissance and a chance to re-start in hopes of getting better combat results in a particular situation. But players with more experience than I would know better.

Restarting is the more obvious way of cheating but saving would obviate the need to go back to the beginning every time and allows one to preserve desirable interim results.

Speaking as a relative newbie: my understanding was that the save counter had been instituted by Matrix as one means to deter cheating. From this fact I, and maybe other newbies, drew the conclusion that saving was construed generally as an indication of cheating and accordingly was a sort of taboo among veteran players. I've been fully corrected in this naive misinterpretation.


/TJD

[Hobbes]

I would think an obvious way around the save display is to make all your reconnaissance, risky attacks etc early on - if they go wrong you can restart. The save display serves no purpose to me but to make people suspicious for no good reason. I'm not a fan of it at all.

After playing many Blitz people for around 8 years I have very rarely considered an opponent to be cheating. Once or twice in all that time and then I think I decided they were OK. It's not the sort of game you get lots of 12 year old boys playing who want to win at any cost. I've found you can tell how good an opponent is by the way he moves his units. If his movement is terrible but his combat results are great over a period of time it might be worth getting suspicious.

Cheers, Chris

P.S. thanks for the UPS idea Scud. However the only reason I would buy one is to enable me to cut down on the number of saves I make - the expense doesn't really seem worthwhile just for that.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Wow! A discussion I can't get in trouble for? ;)

Rule #14

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you CHEAT! The Blitz considers any "stunt/method" that goes beyond the spirit of the game to be cheating. You may only have one member account. Multiple member accounts on the same ladder are considered a form of cheating. You cannot replay moves, crack open games to see your opponent's side, etc. Of course, no reputable grognard would do such a thing. You are not authorized to replay turns, use hex editors, crack files, or any other nefarious means to gain victory. Earn your wins and losses like a person of integrity by playing fair. Should you be caught cheating, you are subject to expulsion from the Blitz!

To those who do not cheat:
Cheaters are a continuing problem in wargaming and face expulsion from the club when they are caught. If you suspect cheating DO NOT make open accusations. Also, DO NOT ignore suspected cheating, because others will fall victim to this individual. Quietly contact the Ladder Commander with your suspicions so that it can be handled officially behind the scenes. Tell the Ladder Commander why you suspect cheating, submit game files for inspection to the Ladder Commander with the password, and continue on like nothing happened.

Public accusations on message boards or via mass mailings will not be tolerated either. Such conduct makes you and the club look bad and will also be ground for being reprimanded. Again if you suspect cheating contact your Ladder Commander and have him deal with it. If you suspect someone is cheating say something to the Commander, the more people speak up the more likely it is that something will happen. Your Ladder Commanders will investigate all allegations of cheating to the best of their ability. The Blitz Club wants to ensure that cheaters do not prosper here.
______________________________________________________

C'mon guys. The club rules cover everything that relates to this discussion. :whis:

I'd like to say that over time you learn the game and simply "play it".

The save then move, return to save point, and restart the game is covered in the above club rules?
And, for those who think playing and reloading is happening, doesn't reloading cause a new set of conditions? I remember the adage, "no plan survives first contact". Wouldn't reloading just cause a new "first contact"? Reloading would be a "stunt method">
I think replaying from a "save point" and "reloading the file" are covered in the club rules?

The current spitting match aside, bringing up the "who's and what's" is simply not good form. And, Rule #14 covers that too? :chin:

I'm sure that Hawk and I can both attest that in all our games (over a thousand each) we may have encountered a small hand full of players that "may" have been "cheating". I know for my self that I could use one hand and have some fingers left.

And Hawk, Troll was referring to Panzer Blitz and Panzer Leader. Those board games are the framework for CS?
Mocking Troll is not productive, is it? :rolleyes:

Kudos to those that offered advice on good game play as well as a way around replay from save and reloads. :thumbs_up:



RR

[Hawk Kriegsman]

Wow! A discussion I can't get in trouble for? ;)

Nope not this time.

I'm sure that Hawk and I can both attest that in all our games (over a thousand each) we may have encountered a small hand full of players that "may" have been "cheating". I know for my self that I could use one hand and have some fingers left.

Yes, I have only ever suspected one player of cheating.

And Hawk, Troll was referring to Panzer Blitz and Panzer Leader. Those board games are the framework for CS?

Yes I know what he was refering to.

Mocking Troll is not productive, is it? :rolleyes:

Maybe, maybe not. But if you think I will sit by quietly while he calls me names and accuses me of cheating, well then you don't know me very well.

Thanx!

Hawk

[zap]

This maybe a little off topic but we are talking about cheating.

Something that happened to me during a game. Which I did myself unintentionally.

In moving my mouse to either send off a turn or end that turn. I , being in a hurry, inadvertently clicked my mouse on the bar at the bottom of the screen.
This caused all my opponents troops to be revealed to me. And I had to watch my Artillery fire for the next turn.
I was able to send the turn off to my opponent it seems he was able to play and we continued our game.

Sorry, I can't be more specific. It happened so fast and I was unclear at the time what I cliked on. But maybe someone here with more experience knows how that can happen.

I guess I would like to know if this happened to anyone while playing?

I could'nt repeat this action if I wanted to. Nor do I want it explained. Would'nt want to have another tool revealed for possible cheating.


I just hope cooler heads will prevail in the discussion.

Zap