Value of combined unit direct fire

[Montana Grizz]

Is there any advantage in combining units in direct fire over firing each unit singularly?

Situation: You have three Pz IVH's within firing range of three T34-M41's. According to the computerized roll of the dice, is there a chance for greater overall success by combining tanks or by firing one unit at a time?

Thank you,

Pat

[XLVIII Pz. Korp]

The advantage of firing singly; a single round may cause a retreat which makes the target vulnerable to susequent shots taken against the rear target aspect, or firing one vehicle alone may achieve a desired result leaving the remaining unfired vehicles with full AP's for follow-up or exploitation of the result

Disadvantage of firing singley: the first shot may unleash a torent of op-fire potentially targeting everyone in the MK IV hex, leaving you with a hex full of disrupted unfired units or worse wrecked ones.

Mathematically, there is no difference at all as the system executes one seperate combat resolution for every strength point that fires be they combined or single.

Really the tactical situation should be the determining factor.

[R-TEAM]

Hi,

IMHO if you fire with 4 tank platoons and a result (retreat/SP loos/Disrupting)
is given after the second shot the 2 remaining platoons stop firing and you loos no
AP points.It is the same as have you single fired and stop firing after the hit.

But the example with op-fire is true, so it is most times better to bundle firing
units.

Regards
R-TEAM

[K K Rossokolski]

I sometimes use it, Pat, more so in big scens when my hand is getting tired. I don't think it actually DOES anything to improve firepower, but it certainly can give a warm inner glow. There is a downside if, as I do, one prefers not to shoot at disrupted units, but rather save the cyber bullets for more dangerous game. That is, if you have say four shots at once, and the second one disrupts the target, you might have had a better use for the third and fourth shot. Remember that XLVIII's post above only applies when the armour facing rule is ON.

[Mr. Guberman]

for me...I would be an idiot, ever to contemplate that...I fire each pistol, piece by piece...

Don't know if that changes anything...but it sure feels good...

Cheers
Guberman

[Montana Grizz]

As always, no definitive answer :laughing:

Thank you all for your opinions.

Very much glad to see you back in action Rod :)

So, I guess it's just up to me and how I happen to feel about the situation at the time.

Pat

[Mike Abberton]

Hi,

IMHO if you fire with 4 tank platoons and a result (retreat/SP loos/Disrupting)
is given after the second shot the 2 remaining platoons stop firing and you loos no
AP points.It is the same as have you single fired and stop firing after the hit.

But the example with op-fire is true, so it is most times better to bundle firing
units.

Regards
R-TEAM

In my experience, normal SP loss and disruptions do not stop the later units in a stack from firing. I know I have double disrupted units with stack fire before. When prepping for an assault it's less of a waste, since you may very well need several "disruption" results to get the enemy's morale low enough to assault.

Retreats and eliminations do stop the rest of the stack from firing since there is no longer a target. I think blocked retreat SP losses, i.e. your shot causes a retreat result to a unit with no retreat path resulting in a SP loss, will cause the stack to stop firing, but I am not sure.

That said, my decision to stack fire or not is:

1) Am I worried about return (op) fire, particularly from a single dangerous unit. If yes, I will lean towards stack firing to get some hits in before return fire.

2) Assaulting - If I am prepping for an assault, and I think I have a shot at winning the assault. I will select fire with individual units, starting with those further from the target (to minimize the strength of op fire), preferably in hexes by themselves to minimize the risks of return fire. MG units are good for this, especially MG34/42's and 50 cals. The goal is to get all the targets in the hex disrupted for the assault.

3) Disrupted units fire - If I have a lot of disrupted units in the area, I will probably stack fire these. They are not likely to do much damage anyway, and it saves time.

4) Attrition Fire - If I don't think I can assault a hex and I am just trying to kill defenders, I will often stack fire to save time/avoid return fire.

Mike

[Reddog]

Using the same example of 3 PzIVH tanks in a hex as noted above...then why is it when you group fire the value shows 3 times the hit number of what 1 tank would shoot. If there is no benefit to group fire as in strength points why does the game show the total number of all units firing? A false sense of a better chance to cause damage... IMHO.

[R-TEAM]

Hi,

@Mike Abberton

You are maybe right - have testet this and it looks it stops only if the Target
destroyed or retreatet (away) .. but if you fire on a target you need it to destroy
or go away :P
So basicaly bundling Fire is good, only if you only doing disrupt then it is a bad
task ...

Regards
R-TEAM

[Mike Abberton]

In an attrition battle where you are just trying to reduce the enemy by direct fire (as opposed to prepping for an assault), it is often good, as a time saver, if nothing else.

However, if there are lots of enemies units around, it is sometimes better to reduce them individually and semi-evenly rather than one unit at a time. Since there is a maximum counter limitation in a hex as well as a maximum total SP in a hex, it is sometimes better to degrade an enemies high-SP units, particularly infantry and MGs, to limit his ability to concentrate firepower. This is especially true when you are on defense, and the enemy is prepping for an assault.

Other times, it is definitely better to eliminate units one at a time with massed fire. I often spend the early turns of a scenario working on eliminating German MG units if I have the right types of units available, usually tanks with decent soft attack factors and enough range to keep them relatively safe, particularly on defense where the MGs are probably more exposed.


Mike