Combat unit removal

[Skryabin]

It would be nice to discuss this before a game, but how often you do that?

Did you ever think about creation a few different types if ROE lists under numbers 1, 2, 3... with different settings to suite different tastes? Those lists would be available on the site and before the game starts opponents just agree in set 2 let's say... Wouldn't it resolve a lot of misunderstanding between the club members?


Dmitriy

[Glint]

A poll would be interesting. Another train of thought, (not mine neccesarily!) is that a battle is covered by the map area, but that doesn't mean the borders are the edge of the World? As Mike wrote, it seems strange that a unit would sit and die when there's somewhere to run and, I would also agree with Mike that, maybe the scenario should be dumped, not the player?
One could also argue that, if the unit exited the map then the attack wasn't good enough?
Mind you, I do agree that the removal of units to evade an attacking force from gaining the scenario victory point level would be pretty annoying!
regards
Peter

[Montana Grizz]

As mentioned, there are scenario's (usually smaller ones) where-by a side does start with a victory and the removal of all units by that side would maintain that victory.

Not much of a contest in that case!

I am currently playing a scenario in which it starts off with a draw. Neither side seems to want to attack, so I'm thinking about offering a draw to my opponent and moving on to another scenario?!!!!!!!

[Chuck10mtn]

Lets not forget that the arty is no longer usable for the remainder of the game !!! so the ability to keep the enemy from massing his troops has deminished some. Depending on the turn that could be a lot of artillary attacks not being used against you. Just another train of thought. You may not benefit from the points but he doesn't get the attacks points from them either.

Chuck

[von Manstein]

I wonder, is it possible to do changes in game like that:
- removing units from map impossible except victory exit hex
or
- removing units from map will give to opponent some victory points, little less than while eliminating that unit (more realistic option)

[Kool Kat]

It would be nice to discuss this before a game, but how often you do that?

Did you ever think about creation a few different types if ROE lists under numbers 1, 2, 3... with different settings to suite different tastes? Those lists would be available on the site and before the game starts opponents just agree in set 2 let's say... Wouldn't it resolve a lot of misunderstanding between the club members?


Dmitriy

Dmitriy:

I suppose your suggestion would work... but frankly don't think we are THAT organized! :eek1:

I do believe; as I stated in an earlier post, that players need to communicate with each other on agreed ROEs, optional rules, special conditions, etc. prior to the start of their game. This is especially true when you are playing an individual for the first time.

Does it often happen? Most likely not... and it is usually a "non-issue" between players until a disagreement erupts during play.

I've had a "few" instances during my PBeM games when I watched a turn replay and witnessed some questionable actions. Usually a quick exchange of notes for clarification will resolve any potential dispute between reasonable adults? :chin:

[Skryabin]

I've had a "few" instances during my PBeM games when I watched a turn replay and witnessed some questionable actions. Usually a quick exchange of notes for clarification will resolve any potential dispute between reasonable adults? :chin:

Who is a "reasonable adult" here? I thought we are just kids playing a game ;)

:smoke:
Dmitriy

[K K Rossokolski]

War is conducted without rules in the sense of fighting it, so why should war games differ? For generations now international agreements such as the Geneva Convention have sought, with decreasing success to regulate the conduct of war in a humanitarian sense. ROE as used by civilised forces stem largely from these agreements, and certainly may effect tactics, operations and even strategy.

I am presently engaged in playing all the scens with another old bloke (albeit younger). No rules*. If your valuable map edge heavy arty is about to be overrun by a pair of Jeep Scout Sections, Off arrow .....zooosh. Trucks..... drop their load, map edge in a hurry, thanks chaps.
But remember the Universal Law of Unintended Consequences...if you need them later, tough sh*t.
*Except the necessary computer selections.

That said, I am not opposed to game rules at all. Indeed, we all are subject to the Optional Rules check box, so the principle is established, but here it is run and controlled by the computer. No complaints are allowed, nor possible.
One difficulty I have with rules is that if there are none, there are, by definition, no disputes. Life is simple. But we appear to be a fairly argumentative lot, so I think a plethora of rules would lead to a plethora of disputes. And who is to adjudicate? Will the squeakiest wheel always get the oil? What penalties if any should be imposed?
If people want rules...lets call them Rules of Engagement (ROE) although technically that term is not quite accurate...I think there is an argument for codifying a list, and publishing it. Each rule should be short and sharp, on one topic, and precise in meaning. All rules would be optional
For example: No units may be taken off the board except at a proper exit hex. That is precise and unequivocal. No doubt what it means
The REAL issue, however is not the rules, which I would be happy to draft if so tasked. It is the arbitration of the inevitable disputes, which is bound to be controversial, and has nasty divisive potential.

PS I don't see this as O/T. Unit removal is intimately connected with rules

[Skryabin]

No rules*. If your valuable map edge heavy arty is about to be overrun by a pair of Jeep Scout Sections, Off arrow .....zooosh. Trucks..... drop their load, map edge in a hurry, thanks chaps.
But remember the Universal Law of Unintended Consequences...if you need them later, tough sh*t.
*Except the necessary computer selections.

This looks like ROE set #1 - "no rules". If two opponents agree to play this way, who cares?

I would ask veterans if it is possible just write down all the personal ROEs they've ever met. Because I am not sure if I even heard all of them :chin:. And there is no place I could take a look... or there is?

I would really appreciate a full list.

Dmitriy

[K K Rossokolski]

Rules...have there been that many?
Seems to me removal of units and the endless 1/2 track issue have taken up most of our time over the years.