Is this cheating

Montana Grizz · 09-12-2009, 09:35 AM,

I look at a scenario and notice rivers and streams and wonder if my infantry and/or tanks can cross the water at locations other than bridges or fords.

The manual I have is in black & white and distinguishing between rivers, streams, canals, etc. is rather difficult.

So, I open the game up and try to move some assorted items across these bodies of water to determine whether I can accomplish that goal.

The answer is often crucial to my game plan and I don't consider it cheating because the only information I am seeking is actually available in the game manual, but I can't read it.

Just wanted your opinions.

Chuck10mtn · 09-12-2009, 09:49 AM,

Montana Grizz Wrote:I look at a scenario and notice rivers and streams and wonder if my infantry and/or tanks can cross the water at locations other than bridges or fords.

The manual I have is in black & white and distinguishing between rivers, streams, canals, etc. is rather difficult.

So, I open the game up and try to move some assorted items across these bodies of water to determine whether I can accomplish that goal.

The answer is often crucial to my game plan and I don't consider it cheating because the only information I am seeking is actually available in the game manual, but I can't read it.

Just wanted your opinions.

Thats real touchy, You should be able to see if there are any light blue spots that can be crossed. I don't care what my opponent does so to me its not streaching the rules, I don't like the word cheating, is causes hard feeling and in a war there was and is no such thing as cheating to win. All is fair in love and war !!! I know people will say that the information would have been avaiable, but on D-Day the flooded spots were according to Intellengence was only 6 inches deep, wrong some spots were over your head. Cheating I would say NO,

Chuck

K K Rossokolski · 09-12-2009, 10:27 AM,

If the river or stream is light blue (on the screen), it can be crossed by anything capable of off road movement, which is everything except trains, I think. In other words, your troops can drive or wade across.
Note that there might be terrain along the river or stream bank that precludes some movement. Swamps and marshes are very limiting.

Personally, I think we are getting a bit carried away with this cheating thing.

**Scud** · 09-12-2009, 10:53 AM,

Yeah, me too.

Montana Grizz · 09-12-2009, 11:05 AM,

Thank you Chuck and Rod,

I suppose "cheating" was the wrong word.

Perhaps I should have said, "questionably moral proceedure"?

I have lost games because I thought I could cross water or use a bridge! I may well have lost anyway, but it is damn frustrating to have to reverse direction because I have misread the scenario.

Rod provided a helpful hint in regard to "light blue". I can only hope that both light and dark blue will be displayed so that I recognize the difference.

**Scud** · 09-12-2009, 11:49 AM,

Try a right flanking move as the allies in "Hugh Is Coming". I lost 4 turns turning around in that one. Would have been really funny, except it was happening to me instead of my opponent.

John Given · (This post was last modified: 09-12-2009, 03:08 PM by John Given.)

Another thing to keep an eye on is fjord hexes.

If an engineer "destroys" one, a light bridge graphic will appear in 3d mode, and a blown bridge "red splash" icon will appear over the fjord location in 2d mode.

The fact that anyone can still cross this hexside may be lost upon someone who now *thinks* they can't because all they see (in 3d) is a light bridge, and as we all know, most units can't cross a light bridge. (foot class units, jeeps, and kubelwagons excepted)

It's kind of a game bug thing. But...is it cheating to do this? IMO, no, it's not, since if you see a blown bridge icon in 2d, and a light bridge occupying the same area in 3d, you know its' someone (maybe me :whis:) trying to "hide" a fjord hexside. Of course, this little trick does not affect the hexside's utility in any way - it's still a fjord, even if it no longer looks like one.

Also, you can have engineers "blow" non-bridge hexsides, and the 2d map will show the blown bridge icon (in 2d), even in clear terrain. Might make an enemy think he can't travel between two particular hexsides...if he plays in 2d mode. Of course, this does not affect unit movement in any way. So if you want to have a lot of cool red "blotches" all over your map (and you have engineers), let 'er rip! Maybe you could use this method to write out a message on the map for your opponent... :rolleyes:

Finally, you can have non-disrupted infantry (not engineers) create an IP in a minefield hex. Looks a little weird, but it can be done. The minefiled will always be displaying its graphic in 2d mode, so there is no way you can "hide" the minefield by creating your IP on top of it. Now, using construction engineers to create a "block" on top of the mine?? I have yet to try that.

RedDevil · 09-12-2009, 09:02 PM,

Cheating is abusing the mechanics of the system to gain an advantage over another player. This mostly covers changing code or redoing turns to get a favorable results.
Opening a scenario and looking it over prior to playing is not cheating if everyone has the same opportunity, it would be lying however, if you tell your opp you're playing this "blind" :) but not everyone lies.. right?..

Having two copies of your battle open while playing it is not cheating, as both players have the ability to do so. In other words if both players have equal opportunity to see and do something, it cannot be labeled as cheating.

Morally acceptable behavior or "etiquette" dictates that one should not be doing these things without prior consultation with their opponents, or not at all, but the Internet allows such activities and it only troubles those of exceptional character and morals.

Players with low self esteem and no conscience generally utilize these activities simply to cover up their inadequacies, rather than educate themselves in becoming proficient in their gaming.

The expectation of your fellow gamer to follow and obey the proper gaming etiquette is high, but on the same token, one must be rather naive to believe it is a standard here or anywhere you game, over the Internet.

cheers

Von Earlmann · 09-13-2009, 05:54 AM,

RedDevil Wrote:but not everyone lies.. right?..
The expectation of your fellow gamer to follow and obey the proper gaming etiquette is high, but on the same token, one must be rather naive to believe it is a standard here or anywhere you game, over the Internet.

First rule of business " Trust no one"

By damn I'm getting good at this quote thingy :-)

VE

K K Rossokolski · 09-13-2009, 07:40 AM,

RedDevil Wrote:Cheating is abusing the mechanics of the system to gain an advantage over another player. This mostly covers changing code or redoing turns to get a favorable results.

Remember the Swedish (?) fellow who created a bunch of virtual "opponents" and reported games "played" against him. Cleverly, did not report wins all the time....maybe 75%. Few years back.
And re Scandinavia, for John Given....I presume you mean fords, not fjords.