Korsun '44 Alt Scenarios V3 now available

[Volcano Man]

3) The scenario design tools force the designer to 'guess' where the front will be - that is the case here. One option I think could give players slightly more flexibility is to use strategy options for the paradropped supply so that they could land in say 3 different areas. One might be Korsun airfield, one might be where the German start line was and one might be somewhere in advance of the line. Scatter would be still present, but at least this gives the player some control? The challenge for the player is that paradropped supply does not move so landing too far in the rear will not supply the forward units.

Excellent idea, and an excellent use of S|Os. I did this with B44_Alt, I provided some S|O choices at start (thanks to someone's suggestion) to where the US player can choose where he wants his supply dumps to be located. This is something like what can be done in K44 here, except that the S|O would happen just before the supply drop is about to happen. I would give the commander some manner of control in the drop, but not total control. Oh well, perhaps this is one more thing for the list of constant future improvements... ;)

[SnowBlue]

Sorry, whats FSoR?

[Strela]

I will have a bit of a test of this - but it should fix the airdrop 'issue'. I may do a little 'mini' update - but will wait for further feedback.

[Indragnir]

Thank you Strela,

You made things very clear LOL.

I wish you luck and patience, Kharkov area is full of scenarios and campaigns.

FSoR = Flaming Sword of Retribution, an old fan-made campaign long time ago, playing the whole russian offensive at Kharkov area.
You can mod it to play 2nd and 3rd battles of Kharkov IIRC even the 4th battle of Kharkov.

[Marquo]

"There has been some great efforts to do FSoR by the community previously. Whatever we do will go beyond any efforts that are normally done and will be more in the vein of VM's Operation Compass with multiple campaigns and scenarios."

Many years ago I spent many sleepless nights and broke my rear end creating FSR - The Flashing Sword of Retribution. I pored over many books, got input from many books, tapped into many online resources, and have a huge folder of email input from many old timers such as Rick B, Glenn S, Mike A, VM and even a kind word or two of encouragement from John Tiller :) which I have enshrined. I am very curious to know what you will cook up with with super effort that is, "beyond any efforts that are normally done." :conf: Since my effort was simply normal, I expect great things from you.

Good luck on your uber endeavor.

Marquo :bow:

[Strela]

Hi Marquo,

Just a quick note to apologise to you as it seems that my comments have offended. Never the intention.

My comparison was based on the fact that I intended to do a range of scenarios and campaigns in one package rather than the more normal single campaign / scenario.

As it is to date I have not even confirmed that Kharkov '43 is what we are working on and it was probably poor form to even hint at the new project. I will take a leaf out of HPS book going forward.

Again, apologies.

David

[Volcano Man]

No worries -- Marquo, when the time comes perhaps you would be interesting in helping with the project (whatever it is)? I don't think it is meant to undercut anyone's previous effort, certainly not all the effort you did on the FSR scenario in the past; If Strela is working on something along the same topic (he didn't say), then who is to say that a huge expansion would not be for the better, building off everyone's work -- and a joint project at that where we all get the credit. :)

As we know, I have created a few _Alt campaigns with many changes to see those changes as the foundation of someone elses campaign, where they changed a few things they disliked or thought should be different. That is the nature of it all though (after all, I created the _Alt based on the hard work of the original designers); I don't mind since we are all just trying to make the scenario that we ourselves want to play -- not blatantly copying and trying to claim credit (well, I haven't seen anyone doing this). To each their own preference for the scenario of their choice, but I don't think anyone will ever say that one scenario is "better" than another one someone else created (they certainly shouldn't!), it is simply another take on the same subject. I just don't want to see anyone get upset here -- we all have the same goal I think. Better to work together where we can all reap the rewards.

[Marquo]

David, Ed -

I am really not at all obfuscated, just excited at the prospect of a new and improved FSR. When I posted it, I commented that it should take on a life of it's own, and that any member of the Club should feel free to improve it.

I remember working on Kursk with you, Ed. We sent multiple files back and forth and tuned up the annoying ability of the Soviets to attack in the far west and north east...and worked on a method to trigger release the 5th Guards Tank Army. Anyway, enough of the pleasant memories - I will be glad to help with whatever you have up your sleeves...

Marquo :-)

[Volcano Man]

I remember working on Kursk with you, Ed. We sent multiple files back and forth and tuned up the annoying ability of the Soviets to attack in the far west and north east...and worked on a method to trigger release the 5th Guards Tank Army. Anyway, enough of the pleasant memories - I will be glad to help with whatever you have up your sleeves...

Yes indeed, I remember that and I am glad you helped me with it -- it has greatly improved the K43 campaign! Ok, great, I just didn't want anyone to be upset. :whis:

[cavalry corps]

Thank all for the comments :

Foul - Will see what I can do. I have been ruthless with save game file lately and may have to see if I can resurrect the last turn. Each turn for the AAR was taking me 2+ hours to post and other priorities got in the way. At the very least I can write up a summary of what was learned and what was changed with the scenario to further balance it and drive a historical outcome.

Cesar - I said it was a tease :) so I can neither confirm or deny. There has been some great efforts to do FSoR by the community previously. Whatever we do will go beyond any efforts that are normally done and will be more in the vein of VM's Operation Compass with multiple campaigns and scenarios. My wife has expressed her dismay when 6 large books arrived from Amazon on the new topic - after seeing the time we put into Korsun.

Cavalry Corps - Just had a quick look at the para drop - had not adjusted (or tested extensively) this area. There are a couple of things to note :

1) The airdrops initially are on the forward edge of the German battle line with a scatter of 3-4. This will result in some falling on the Russian side of the lines.

2) The drops after Feb 12th are in advance of the German start lines. Historically the breakout had moved beyond Shenderovka to Khilki / Novo Buda area. Some of the drops fall in this area or further to the east. The challenge with the drops is to supply the German advance of both the pocket and the relieving forces - the mud makes it very difficult to supply the forward forces and the Germans historically did airdrops to keep the advance moving.

3) The scenario design tools force the designer to 'guess' where the front will be - that is the case here. One option I think could give players slightly more flexibility is to use strategy options for the paradropped supply so that they could land in say 3 different areas. One might be Korsun airfield, one might be where the German start line was and one might be somewhere in advance of the line. Scatter would be still present, but at least this gives the player some control? The challenge for the player is that paradropped supply does not move so landing too far in the rear will not supply the forward units.

Happy for anyone elses comments on this one.

Strela

sorry for the delay

I think that the airdrop units shoule be dropped near the historical front line but adjust their range that the only solution.
In the breakout scn I found the supply was far too far away and far too little , in the end I ran out of all supply.
I agree its a shame we cannot target a hex for arrival rather than having it fixed.

Cav