Digging In

Strela · (This post was last modified: 01-02-2010, 08:43 PM by Strela.)

Hi Liebchen,

I was thinking of bunkers as a 'third step' beyond improved positions / trenches. To go from a trench to bunker would require a trench to be present PLUS an engineer unit. So no way they would appear in two hours :) Think of the engineers having the necessary heavy equipment to put in place overhead cover....

Foul - yes additional defensive positions when done right can really make a scenario. I am finding the scenario design tools are extremely flexible - just would like a few small tweaks :)

Strela

James Ward · 01-03-2010, 04:38 AM,

At the beginning of some scenarios I have seen empty pillboxes and bunkers in Capital letters. If you enter the hex you occupy it but if you then leave the hex it becomes empty, small letters.

Is it possible for pillboxes and bunkers to be set to never become unoccupied?

Volcano Man · 01-03-2010, 06:45 AM,

Foul. Wrote:What i think it is saying i believe is that engineers cannot upgrade a Pillbox/Bunker that has been vacated and downgraded to pillbox/bunker (lowercase) cannot be brought back to full strength PILLBOX/BUNKER as you can with IP's and trench hex's.

"In the Hex Info Area, the Fort type is written in text. When forts such as trenches are written as "TRENCH", in upper case, they are in the "normal" state. When such a fort has been vacated, they will be shown in lower case, and be of lessor protection to the defender."

The calculation of the % chance of digging in uses the basic % value in the PDT and increases it with the following factors.

1) Having Engineers in the same hex will double the probability of constructing the new fortification.

2) The probability that a battalion unit will be successful in its Digging-In operation per turn is three times normal as is the case for combined companies with three or more units. Combined companies with two units have a two times normal probability of completing the Digging-In operation. Single companies and platoons have the normal probability.

I believe that rule 2) applies also to engineers, so in the case of a battalion of engineers would be double the PDT % (rule 1) and a further three times for rule 2.

I am sure Ed and Rick can confirm this is the case.

Yep, that sounds about right. As Glenn said, that covers it pretty well, good post. One of the most important functions of an engineer unit is to increase the chance of digging in, combine this with are their other special abilities and they are valuable units. Unfortunately some use them as fodder. :(

Volcano Man · 01-03-2010, 07:12 AM,

Strela Wrote:Hi Liebchen,

I was thinking of bunkers as a 'third step' beyond improved positions / trenches. To go from a trench to bunker would require a trench to be present PLUS an engineer unit. So no way they would appear in two hours :) Think of the engineers having the necessary heavy equipment to put in place overhead cover....

Foul - yes additional defensive positions when done right can really make a scenario. I am finding the scenario design tools are extremely flexible - just would like a few small tweaks :)

Strela

Well, I have said in the past that bunkers and BUNKERS should be possible with engineer units, just reference whatever reduced probability it takes for them to lay mines. Has anyone ever tried to lay mines? It takes forever, maybe a full day or more. So, if that same % was used for engineers to improve a TRENCH to a Bunker, and then again from a Bunker to a BUNKER, then there really wouldn't be many new bunkers on the map -- but at least it would be possible to create new ones by having engineers working overtime in quiet sectors. But "oh well". ;)

Sgt Barker · (This post was last modified: 01-03-2010, 09:44 AM by Sgt Barker.)

Volcano Man Wrote:Has anyone ever tried to lay mines? It takes forever, maybe a full day or more.

Yup. Seems a very low % chance. Have seen them appear in a couple of turns, and also gone over a full day (iirc) and never had them appear. Can't remember ever getting >1 strength though, even sitting there in 'mine laying' mode after the initial field appears.

Dog Soldier · 01-03-2010, 09:59 AM,

Engineers laying mines in a sceanrio can only lay a maximum density of 1. Once you have that move to another hex to lay more. You can not create 2x and 3x size minefields during the game.

If one wants to lay mines, be sure you have at least 10 engineers (in different hexes of course) and you will get a minefield in one of them almost every turn. Some turns you will get more than one hex covered.

Dog Soldier

**Mr Grumpy** · 01-03-2010, 07:22 PM,

Sgt Barker Wrote:
Volcano Man Wrote:Has anyone ever tried to lay mines? It takes forever, maybe a full day or more.

Yup. Seems a very low % chance.

"The probability that the minefield will be created in the hex based on a single Engineer unit is half the Digging-In Parameter Data value. However, when an Engineer unit has less than 100 men, the probability is reduced proportionally. "

So in most games the chances are quite low even for a unit with 100+ men, the only title that i own i had any real success with is Sicily where the digging in % is 30%. ;)

Sgt Barker · 01-04-2010, 07:38 AM,

Thanks for the word guys!

Dog Soldier · 01-05-2010, 09:29 AM,

Foul. Wrote:So in most games the chances are quite low even for a unit with 100+ men, the only title that i own i had any real success with is Sicily where the digging in % is 30%. ;)

Actually F40 is a good title to try to lay mines. Both sides have ample numbers of engineer units. Historically, the Allies had warehouses full of mines they never used! As the Allies, one can make for rude surprises to the marauding Axis player with this feature.

While a 1x minefield may not seem worth the trouble, it does reduce the enemy movement when they hit it by 1/3. A little cleverness in placement can cause an enemy unit to not be able to assault until next turn, giving you time to reinforce your hex behind the mines.

Such a placement can also make for a nice trap to catch an enemy unit then pound the victim with indirect or direct fire in your turn. If the opportunity presents itself, follow up with an assault. Your own unit can then withdraw from the mines after the assault back into its original defensive position in the same turn without allowing the enemy to attack it. Be careful you know how many MP are needed to pull this off! If done well, you can at least create a very fatigued and battered enemy unit making your opponent more cautious in his advance. It could even buy a turn or two to complete your next line of defense.

Dog Soldier

Midge · 01-11-2010, 05:30 AM,

Why would "my Company" dig a trench 3 times faster if its in the same hex as the rest of the Battalion ??

Having dug many a trench I often found the adverse to be true......when "my Company" was out on a limb we always dug in alot quicker as there were alot less officers about poking their noses in and directing you onto other tasks instead of allowing you to concentrate solely on preparing your home for the next few days !!

Just wondered what the rationale was behind it !