Fixed Units Question

[Marquo]

From the manual:

"Units which are Fixed cannot move until Released, fired upon, or assault against, but may fire themselves."

"Units that are assaulted or Spotted automatically become un-Fixed. In addition, depending on the scenario, certain organizations may have Releases assigned to them that will cause their units to become un-Fixed at a certain time in the scenario. Depending on the Release, if any unit in such an organization becomes Spotted, then the Release may be automatically triggered."


  Fixed Question.jpg (Size: 68.82 KB / Downloads: 26)

In this situation note 2 things:

1. The disrupted unit was moved adjacent to, fixed upon and remains disrupted - why? It was spotted and fired upon.

2. The units in the 2 upper hexes were moved adjacent to thus spotted by enemy units moving along the road, and they, too remain fixed.

Why?

Thanks

Marquo

[Ricky B]

Hey Marquo,

I think you are saying for unit 1, it was fired up and remained fixed, correct? And for group 2, they had an enemy unit move adjacent, the enemy units then disappeared. I am sure that units "fired" upon don't automatically release, so wherever the manual states that is incorrect, I believe. We know this because of the infamous "bomb the fixed units" exploit, which is a form of fire and doesn't release anything :). And the spotted check is at the start of the fixed unit's turn, which is when spotted status is checked. So no enemy in sight, the units won't release unfortunately, even if any entire enemy army marched by.

Rick

[Mr Grumpy]

I think Rick is correct, it is possible in desert titles where units have huge MP allowances to move up (from out of LOS) to a fixed unit fire at it and scoot back out of LOS leaving the fixed unit with casualties/fatigue but still fixed ! :(

Just the way the engine works i am afraid........

[Marquo]

I think Rick is correct, it is possible in desert titles where units have huge MP allowances to move up (from out of LOS) to a fixed unit fire at it and scoot back out of LOS leaving the fixed unit with casualties/fatigue but still fixed ! :(

Just the way the engine works i am afraid........

---

"Just the way the engine works i am afraid........"

Well, I copied /pasted the exact words from the Bulge Manual, "Units which are Fixed cannot move until Released, fired upon, or assault against, but may fire themselves." This is obviously wrong.

This idiosyncrasy is an irritation/annoyance - it allows for players with beforehand knowledge of a scenario to pummel fixed units which can do nothing to protect themselves - even if shelled, air attacked, moved adjacent to and fired upon. BTW, where in the manual does it suggest that spotting is only done at the beginning of a turn. The verbage says, "spotted" - not in LOS at the beginning of move.

Further, this is completely inconsistent with recon rules, where units can be spotted and fired upon by artillery/air in "real time" during a move.

Anyway, the engine should be changed to allow units which have been pummeled in a gamey fashion to flee the next move.

Marquo :soap:

[Ricky B]

"BTW, where in the manual does it suggest that spotting is only done at the beginning of a turn. The verbage says, "spotted" - not in LOS at the beginning of move."

Nowhere that I know of Marquo. Glad to help out :).

Rick

[Mr Grumpy]

"BTW, where in the manual does it suggest that spotting is only done at the beginning of a turn. The verbage says, "spotted" - not in LOS at the beginning of move."

Nowhere that I know of Marquo. Glad to help out :).

Rick

Some rules you only really find out how they work my playing or experimenting with the game engine.

[Marquo]

[/quote]
Some rules you only really find out how they work my playing or experimenting with the game engine.
[/quote]

Yeah, 8 years on the chain gang and still learning the rules.:curse:

[Glenn Saunders]

That all said Marqo - if you want tohave anything looked at from a POV of a bug, the best way to do it would be with a Btl file which you could send or even zip and attach to a post I guess.

In yoour first post you mention air attacks on fixed units and I also wanted to remind you that this issue was discovered in N44 years ago and corrected with an optional rule.

In any case here it seems from the answers you'v got that their is nothing here to be reviewed.

Glenn

[Marquo]

[quote='Glenn Saunders' pid='314223' dateline='1263755901']
That all said Marqo - if you want tohave anything looked at from a POV of a bug, the best way to do it would be with a Btl file which you could send or even zip and attach to a post I guess.

Glenn,

I am not suggesting that this is a bug in the sense that the engine is functioning in a way not intended by the programmer. I am suggesting that the intended way it is functioning is a bit illogical. Fixing units is to prevent grossly antihistorical behavior; the problem is that the way things stand at present, it is very easy, too easy IMHO, for the other player to take antihistorical/gamey advantage of the fixed units which apparently can't retreat or defend themselves.


"In any case here it seems from the answers you'v got that their is nothing here to be reviewed."

Right - the system works as intended. However, one could review the issue of flagrant abuse of fixed units and take steps to reprogram the system if one was so inclined. And one could edit the B'44 players manual to delete the erroneous statement that fixed units which are fired upon release.

Marquo :-)

[Glenn Saunders]

However, one could review the issue of flagrant abuse of fixed units and take steps to reprogram the system if one was so inclined.

One would review it if there was a file sent. Otherwise this is all just a discussion between interested parties.

I suppose I could read carefully the posts and see if I could figure out how to recreate the situation your talkng about but then if you know exactly what your talking about you could do that much more effectively.

Glenn