!Normandy44 Beta Testing

[Chuck10mtn]

Hey Dan,
I'll send you another during action report after I get my next turn . I think we are around 15-18 and think its time to let you know what I think so far. I've come across some allied boats that have nothing in them when they come on board. Also a couple of ideas that I seen you put in your last report here.

Chuck

[Dan Caviness]

Hello everyone here is a short AAR/Update on the current games in progress of !normandy44.


First some shots, and I hope the files aren't too large. Bear with an old man...



Turn 5 Omaha Beach
The 1st wave troops are just hitting the beaches.



Turn 5 Utah Beach





Turn 5 Juno
2nd Canadians wading ashore...



Turn 5 Gold Beach DETAIL



Turn 5 Omaha DETAIL
Some Big Red One boys and some 29th Infantry getting ready to bleed...



Turn 5 Juno DETAIL
The Canadians getting ready for pain.



This one shows the Jump Map for the entire Normandy coastline....100 km of coastline boys...plenty to do...for those lookig for a large one. You can see the inland blue areas where the Yank and British airborne troops landed during the first three turns. They are fighting for their lives.

Regards,

Dan

As a result of the information gathered during the playtesting for this scenario the following changes are already being implemented:

1. Reinforcement Display Hexes "mirror imaged" during display for Germans.
2. Change 1,118 to pillbox.
3. Reduce Jemimas/Engineers on Utah
4. Eliminated trucks from paras.
5. Gold Beach (Love-King-Jig-Item) Brits too weak/Germans too strong.
6. Add Centaur IV's to Juno/Gold.
7. Reduce/eliminate some stone walls along 239,169 to 265,184 to facilitate truck/HQ movement along and away from roads.
8. Eliminate low stone wall @230,168 (hedge).
9. Hex 332,202 has road but units paying 65 APs check map file.
10. Add leaders for 716th Division, 778th Engineers.
11. Leaders for SS 12th Division 287th AT Battalion.
12. Add ranks to ALL commander names.
13. Add some backline artillery for German defenders. Add some reinforcement artillery to Germans.
14. Delete bocage hexside 283,192 (up) allow movement through village.
15. Replace bocage with low hedge hex 234,175
16. Scout and consider other areas along roads where bocage should be eliminated to allow for vehicle movement into all areas of map.
17. Passe de Carentan requires some re-mapping with more swamp and less elevation.
18. By turn 20 Allies have massive tanks. Evaluate arrival of first quality German off map armor to adjust timing as needed.
19. Move ONE British battleship back 12 hexes to prevent excessive inland shelling.
20. Replace bocage with hedge 233,174 (both sides)
21. Trim down DD Shermans due to inland river crossing potential.
22. Add Free Polish?
23. Add commentary in "read me" explaining the need to get organizational order with a massive game like this. You must achieve Divisional/Corps integrity to be effective.
24. Remove bocages 63,176 1249,191 194,177 234,175 307,201 44,164 310,204
25. Replace Lord Lovat with mechanized commander.
26. Add forest/cover behind cliffs between Utah and Omaha to conceal HQs and units there from Allied advance.
27. Remove low stone wall @ hex 18,145 and 21,154 to allow halftrack and AC movement. (45,165 also)
28. Evaluate and reduce Allied artillery. (land based) They may have too much.
29. Shrink Flugplatz Caen (Carpiquet Airfield) a bit. Caen may need to be larger.
30. Add more defensive fortifications around and in Caen. Make tougher. More snags, more fixed and unfixed troops.
31. Open some roads by deleting some bocage 295,220 286,220 282,228 300,217 292,217
32. Evaluate Hill 112 for playability. It's difficult terrain.

And these are just a small part of the improvements the testing has led to. Just wanted you to know your tax dollars and H2H testing are hard at work...(:O)

I'm going to post up some Turn 30 shots next...the map is quite a different place 30 turns later.


My thanks to all.

Dan

[Dan Caviness]

Hello everyone:

Von Luck and I, Turn 46 or so, are now locked in bitter conflict and contesting Carentan, Bayeaux, Bretteville, and of course, Caen.

I never thought I would say this, and JB may certainly disagree, but at Turn 46 I believe the Allies may be running out of units. Von Luck has proven quite masterful at working this map's potential, and every hex seems to cost me bodies to negotiate.

Final tweaks are still being negotiated.

Rather than post up any map images at this time I thought I'd just make a quick post to let all the testors know I'm still here, still working on this, and still appreciate all of your efforts.

I see now that we have at least one completed test game and my comments below regard to the H2H critique supplied by Ed and Montana, and of course their partners, who I believe were Reddog and Kernel t.

I tried to add the below as a comment to the critique section of the H2H area but didn't seem to have any luck with that so for now I'll just put them here.





Ed/Montana:

I thank you very much for your work and your excellent comments. As you have noted, some of your comments and suggestions are being implemented already. The point about unit commanders and consistent commander naming nomenclature is well taken. I will admit to exhaustion during some of the OOB creation and I will straighten those out. I also agree it is a pain to deal with several thousand unloaded LSTs when you are arrowing through "next available unit"s with the hot key function. I have resorted to aligning them in long columns so I can rapidly arrow through them as I make my moves. It is possible I have developed carpal tunnel and I notice a twitch in my right wrist of late. Those near the map edge can be exited of course.

I have been able to relocate my heavy artillery inland playing in my test game against Von Luck. It was not evident in some cases, but there were passable hexsides, and I tried to mark them with unpaved road on the beach cliff area hexsides. Those are all behind high wall that needs to be demolished to make them passable, but they are marked by the dirt roads that stand out against the sand hexes of the beach. I should make that clearer, or make more roads. The Naval guns do run out of range before you run out of map, but that is historical and by design.

I would not recommend playing this scenario with the computer as Allied. It is difficult for the computer to even handle the Axis as second side, and as you note, it makes a complete hash of it as the Allied player. This scenario is most definitely designed for Human vs Human, PBEM. I do appreciate your running it though and I owe you a beer for that sacrifice. Sorry.

While this map is bocage and a difficult map to negotiate, I will add more traversable roads to help players get their heavy artillery inland when we have finished our test game.
Any players currently stuck on this please email me and I'll go through the roadways.
I can't remember the hex coordinates at this time and can't go in game but I can get them for you. The key hexes all involve blowing high walls to allow access into a "two level" traverse of what was previously impassable hexsides due to the elevation shift involved. Again, my apologies. It shouldn't be that hard. While I enjoy these mazes, I sometimes forget that other's aren't mind readers. My mistake. I should have noted that in the "read me" and pointed to it in the scenario introduction.

Ed, I know you lost a ton of guys on the beach, and I have the move files you sent as witness. All I can say is, that is the crux of it. The difference between getting hammered on the beaches and getting slaughtered to infinity on those beaches is about 6 turns at best. I know I used almost all of the Allied 230 some smokes to get up Sword and Gold Beaches.

My highest regards to you guys and the others playing with you....I believe Reddog...and kernel t was it?

You guys are the greatest, and this type of honest feedback is what designers can really use.

Rest assured your boys didn't suffer in vain, and my thanks.

Dan

[Von Luck]

Hello everyone:

Von Luck and I, Turn 46 or so, are now locked in bitter conflict and contesting Carentan, Bayeaux, Bretteville, and of course, Caen.

I never thought I would say this, and JB may certainly disagree, but at Turn 46 I believe the Allies may be running out of units. Von Luck has proven quite masterful at working this map's potential, and every hex seems to cost me bodies to negotiate.

Final tweaks are still being negotiated.

Rather than post up any map images at this time I thought I'd just make a quick post to let all the testors know I'm still here, still working on this, and still appreciate all of your efforts.

I see now that we have at least one completed test game and my comments below regard to the H2H critique supplied by Ed and Montana, and of course their partners, who I believe were Reddog and Kernel t.

I tried to add the below as a comment to the critique section of the H2H area but didn't seem to have any luck with that so for now I'll just put them here.





Ed/Montana:

I thank you very much for your work and your excellent comments. As you have noted, some of your comments and suggestions are being implemented already. The point about unit commanders and consistent commander naming nomenclature is well taken. I will admit to exhaustion during some of the OOB creation and I will straighten those out. I also agree it is a pain to deal with several thousand unloaded LSTs when you are arrowing through "next available unit"s with the hot key function. I have resorted to aligning them in long columns so I can rapidly arrow through them as I make my moves. It is possible I have developed carpal tunnel and I notice a twitch in my right wrist of late. Those near the map edge can be exited of course.

I have been able to relocate my heavy artillery inland playing in my test game against Von Luck. It was not evident in some cases, but there were passable hexsides, and I tried to mark them with unpaved road on the beach cliff area hexsides. Those are all behind high wall that needs to be demolished to make them passable, but they are marked by the dirt roads that stand out against the sand hexes of the beach. I should make that clearer, or make more roads. The Naval guns do run out of range before you run out of map, but that is historical and by design.

I would not recommend playing this scenario with the computer as Allied. It is difficult for the computer to even handle the Axis as second side, and as you note, it makes a complete hash of it as the Allied player. This scenario is most definitely designed for Human vs Human, PBEM. I do appreciate your running it though and I owe you a beer for that sacrifice. Sorry.

While this map is bocage and a difficult map to negotiate, I will add more traversable roads to help players get their heavy artillery inland when we have finished our test game.
Any players currently stuck on this please email me and I'll go through the roadways.
I can't remember the hex coordinates at this time and can't go in game but I can get them for you. The key hexes all involve blowing high walls to allow access into a "two level" traverse of what was previously impassable hexsides due to the elevation shift involved. Again, my apologies. It shouldn't be that hard. While I enjoy these mazes, I sometimes forget that other's aren't mind readers. My mistake. I should have noted that in the "read me" and pointed to it in the scenario introduction.

Ed, I know you lost a ton of guys on the beach, and I have the move files you sent as witness. All I can say is, that is the crux of it. The difference between getting hammered on the beaches and getting slaughtered to infinity on those beaches is about 6 turns at best. I know I used almost all of the Allied 230 some smokes to get up Sword and Gold Beaches.

My highest regards to you guys and the others playing with you....I believe Reddog...and kernel t was it?

You guys are the greatest, and this type of honest feedback is what designers can really use.

Rest assured your boys didn't suffer in vain, and my thanks.

Dan

Von Luck still here and still fighting.Lets just say Caen and surounding areas must be some of the most heavily fortified in Western Europe.Dont ask me to mention towns etc to many for that but a quick rundown is all i can add.German forces have been pushed back due to Allied superior numbers losses are great but not what they should have been if the Axis commander had pulled some of his units back quicker.Yep arty on the beach is one thing but the Axis need to clear those Paras to get reinforcements up asap and guess what they block those roads needed as was intended.Bulk of the German forces along with a HEAVY armoured force now sits behind the main river crossings Allied forces should and hopefully will take heavy losses trying to cross these.Bulk of 21st is now reaching it battle positions while elements of Pzr Lehr act as a fire brigade until the rest move up.Heavy arty now nearly in place to take its toll on the Allied infantry.Although most if not all of the beach units and forward units were killed the brains of the units ie HQ's and Leaders managed to escape so valuable points saved there.Although German infantry not quite up to it due to overwhelming numbers the Panzers inflict a heavy toll on the Allied armour with little cost to themselves.Although the terrain doesnt favour the long range German guns getting them into the correct postion reaps rewards as you fire move back and cant be seen until next turn where you repeat the process.Allied push has slowed somewhat in the last few turns in some areas so hope is still there.

[Dan Caviness]

Hello to all the H2H Alphas/Beta Testers/et al:

In a classic case of casual causality not to mention an abuse of assonance I am proud to announce that testing on !normandy44 is going to be suspended soon, forthwith, and posthaste.

I have contacted all testers and have their inputs.

Great minds have come together, cause and effect are established, and entropy has indeed been reversed.
Take that Stephen Hawkings...

I have 50+ turns of personal pain to get my head around with Von Luck.
He has destroyed some 597 Allied Tin Cans at the cost of 196 Axis wrecks.
His only shortcoming is entirely the designer's fault...which is a paucity of infantry which shall be corrected.

I have (most importantly of all)...tied up a slot on the H2H queue long enough...and it's time to take your inputs and incorporate them into the final version of the scenario. My thanks to the H2H custodians for their understanding and support during the last year.

We detailed 32 specific fixes and improvements earlier in this thread, and have 48 more at this point. This tells me many things. First, I make a lot of mistakes. Second, you guys are good at finding them, but I believe I have all your inputs recorded at this point.

For those of you still playing, feel free to continue, this will not effect those games that remain in progress.

One idea that occured to me recently is that many of the players were more enthusiastic about the landings and the fight on the beaches. I understand that and concur. It's the "sexy" part of the scenario and a large part of the dying occurs during those first turns.

I'm creating a shorter version that will be for the landings only. 24 Turns, with the objectives rearranged to account for the shorter game. The timing of some reinforcements will also be adjusted.

The full length version, or the fight for the entire map, will still be in existence and that is the version that we have been testing.

Some have mentioned elsewhere that these large games push the boundaries of the West Front/EFII/Rising Sun engine and that they become an abstraction. I took that comment to heart, but I will say that the entire game straddles the border between tactical and strategic level gaming, and therefore submit it is all abstract.

The game, and the individual scenarios created for it, are what you take from them and nothing more. The time and energy you put into them are directly proportional to the quality of the end product.

I cannot thank all of you enough for putting that time and energy into this grand, ofttimes tragic, occasionally wonderful, Wagnerian Opera of a scenario.

Regards,

Dan

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Dan,

Can you upload the full length version into the CS scenario dBASE? :chin:
I really looks interesting.

I do look forward to the shorter version.

Thanks for all your efforts and hard work. Thanks also to the intrepid testers who took this on. :thumbs_up:



HSL

[Huib Versloot]

Dan,
The easiest way to change the infantry types (from early war to late war) is to open the .org file and the .scn file in a text editor and do a search and replace.
Using the unit viewer is an easy way to find which numbers you have to replace with what numbers (probably P10201 with P10264)

Rgds

Huib

[Dan Caviness]

Thanks Huib, nice tip!

Ed, I will upload the full length version as soon as Von Luck and I wrap up these last two-three turns, at which time I will go in and make the full length version 2 changes.

The shorter version will be stand alone and I think I will just post it up in the scenarios area without undergoing H2H testing. Unless of course I have volunteers who would want to test a 24 turn version for the beach landings?

Regards,

Dan

[Dan Caviness]

Hello to all:

A quick update...I'm suspending testing while I go in and make the final tweaks for version 2.0.

Anyone currently involved in games continue to play and enjoy as long as you like. Anyone who has more input/AARs/general abuse should get that to me as soon as possible.

I'll be entering seclusion in my sensory deprivation chamber for however long it takes...(:O)

Regards,

Dan

[Dan Caviness]

Testing continues!
Vive' la France!
(sp?)