A NIfty Trick... (using Groups)

[Al Amos]

Y'all probably know this one already, but I just found it today.

The trick is issuing a group move then going to the leader, and hitting the 'cancel individual order'. It worked the group moved while the leader stayed in place.

How I see this trick being useful is to issue a group move, then cancel the leader's movement, and then given him an individual order one hex less than the group. This should, and it did in my tests, keep the leader from running out in front of his group and getting killed off.

It will really help when you want one or two units to do something other than what the group is doing. So if you have a group of 10 units, and you want one unit to do something different, instead of issuing 10 individual orders, you can issue a group order, then go to the unit you want to change, and cancel just that unit's order, by hitting the 'cancel individual order' button, and then issue the unit its unique order. Could save time.

.... and the create a new group feature is great. If you have a group lose its leader, you can attach another leader to it, or merge the leaderless group with another group, etc. It is very easy to do, and it allows you all kind of flexibility in managing your army.

I'll post more on group movements as I figure them out.

Please post any tricks or helpful tidbits on how you use groups. We're all learning this engine together.

[TJD]

Great tips, Al, and thanks! The same trick with the group move works with the Army command too, which can certainly save a lot of time, especially in the bigger scenarios.

Tim

[Al Amos]

Tim,

Oooooo...good to know. I was going to try that today. That will help, bunches.

[Dog Soldier]

Great post! This will help in trying to recover units which wander outside the leader's command range. Being able to move the leader to bring the wayward unit back into command (and remove the fixed flag) is a problem I run into quite often.

Too bad the engine only checks for command range at the beginning of a turn instead at the beginning of each of the movement phases inside the turn. If the engine did the latter, I could give a wayward unit a command to help it rejoin the group.

Example: phase one: pause
phase two: pause (by now I guess the unit will be back in the command range of the leader)
phase three: move towards the rest of the group and leader

As it is now, the wayward unit is lost to fixed status for one full turn assuming the leader can stray far enough out to recover the wayward fixed unit while not losing another unit to fixed status at the other end of the group formation.

Dog Soldier

[Al Amos]

I understand your frustration with that, but considering it is only a 15minute turn, its not too unrealistic as is. At least we can go chase down the errant ones, or at least have a chance to catch 'em.

[TJD]

Y'all probably know this one already, but I just found it today.

The trick is issuing a group move then going to the leader, and hitting the 'cancel individual order'. It worked the group moved while the leader stayed in place.

How I see this trick being useful is to issue a group move, then cancel the leader's movement, and then given him an individual order one hex less than the group. This should, and it did in my tests, keep the leader from running out in front of his group and getting killed off.

Just wanted to point out that this tip is especially useful when playing Al's new Tribuni scenarios. Al provides lots of leader units in his design and unless they can be kept from charging ahead there can be a lot of leader casualties. I just finished scenario #5 of the Tribuni and Al's tip is really essential in that one.

Tim

[Al Amos]

Tim,

I like putting centurians with each century. That's why so many leaders. There doesn't appear to be one leader for the cohort, and with an abundant number of leaders - six per cohort, the Romans can stay in command much better than the Gauls. This should increase the endurance of the Romans, and it frees up the Tribunes and Legates to move about and direcet the battle, to go to hot spots as it were.

Of course if a player feels a cohort occupying six hexes is too wide, he can consolidate two of the centuries to form a maniple sized unit, and stack both leader on top of it.

I'll be setting up some legions for Punic Wars on the same basis, of course grouped in maniples. From what I understand the maniple was considered too small when fighting Gauls, so the cohort was adopted (simple version), and setting up the Romans this way should give players a feel for that between the two games. I hope so anyways.

I like providing logistic support at the cohort level, water supply and medical support (wagons and civilians), as they were probably there, but they may be in the way, too much. I like them to be in the way a bit. What did you think Tim? Should I keep them as I go into the legion sized battles or not?

[TJD]

Tim,

I like putting centurians with each century. That's why so many leaders.

I like it too, Al! :) And it sure simplifies command-control issues. Nothing I dislike more than having a unit fixed because it's out of range of its leader. But more importantly, it's realistic, imo. This was a great legion and very experienced. To have any of these guys standing around fixed like marble statues while a fight was going on around them doesn't seem very likely.

There doesn't appear to be one leader for the cohort, and with an abundant number of leaders - six per cohort, the Romans can stay in command much better than the Gauls. This should increase the endurance of the Romans, and it frees up the Tribunes and Legates to move about and direcet the battle, to go to hot spots as it were.

It's a good scheme, Al, and I hope other designers adopt it.

I'll be setting up some legions for Punic Wars on the same basis, of course grouped in maniples. From what I understand the maniple was considered too small when fighting Gauls, so the cohort was adopted (simple version), and setting up the Romans this way should give players a feel for that between the two games. I hope so anyways.

Yes, I think you're right. I think the maniple went out with the Marian reforms. Punic Wars gives players a chance to see what the old Roman army was like, pre-Marius. We've got the whole sweep of Roman military history represented pretty well in these games. Gotta give Paul credit on that score!

I like providing logistic support at the cohort level, water supply and medical support (wagons and civilians), as they were probably there, but they may be in the way, too much. I like them to be in the way a bit. What did you think Tim? Should I keep them as I go into the legion sized battles or not?

They sure do get in the way, Al :) They are at 75% of stack! I was wondering in the 5th scenario just why they were included and i'm glad you've explained it. Now that I understand I think it's a realistic touch and I think you ought to stay with it. Good idea.

When are the new Punic scenarios coming out? Looking forward!

Tim

[Al Amos]

Tim,

Soon I hope for the Punic scenarii. Now in those I won't be doing the logistic support since they weren't so 'professional', another difference (perhaps) between the armies.

I did get the idea, for support troops, from Gary Brueggeman (sp?). He had a neat website up a few years ago, that really broke down the Marion legion to where a person only had to write a program and they had a game! Paul's engine really works well with Brueggeman's ideas.

I worked up my legio sized camp from his site, too. The map for it was included in the zip package. You can see it through the scenario editor. I'll be making a few scenarii with it as well, soon.

[TJD]

Thanks for the info, Al. I've got a further question for you regarding the issue of leaders moving too far ahead. In the list of changes provided by the update to Gallic Wars (and the other titles) there is this item:

"Adjusted – Mounted Leaders only move in fourth quarter of the action phase but move their full allowance. This is designed to stop Leaders moving ahead in Group Movement"

Any idea why the change was restricted to Mounted Leaders? In your scenarios, for example, lots of the leaders are on foot.

Thanks,

Tim