Limited Number of Shots

[Gordons HQ]

The game turn is 6 minute turns and that governs how much you can do, things like movement and many other things.
What I don't understand then is why generally one can fire only two or three shots from a weapon and in reality these could fire many more in this six minute period.
I suspect this is probably to stop the game becoming a click fest or something similar.
But I believe this limited firing allows some very unrealsitic situations to develope in the game. There are nothing wrong with them as far as the game goes but they seem so far removed from reality at times.
I'll just quote one here in a game I'm playing and I must stress there's absolutely nothing wrong with this as far as the game goes.

A 3 strength T34/85 platoon moves into a wooded area and saves one shot for op fire, it's therefoe used say 3 minutes its time. A some enemy armoured cars pull up in front of it it fires, destroys one and they retreat. An halftrack with passenger now knowing the T34s are there and has probably use its op fire. It then pulls up in front of the T34 unloads it's infantry passengers. They then open fire on the T34's and destroy two of them.

Now I believe T34/85's would be able to fire at least 6 times in 6 minutes and probably double that so the game seems very wrong here.
I doubt anything could be done to change this other than perhaps keeping the same number of shots taken manually and then increasing their op fire capability.

I'm not going to arguing for any change here though and merely wondered what others thought of this kind of situation.
I did also wish to point out that situations like this can happen in a game and there is a danger as a result sometimes we may get a wrong impression of what happened on the battlefields of WWII from the game.

Cheers Gordon

[Big Ivan]

Gordon,

I believe some concessions had to be made in the design for a turn based game because as you say you could get a "click fest". Remember its not real time combat as you and I understand real combat. Also the system is not about shots available but action points used. In that 6 minute period there can be a lot of things going on with a unit in that 250 meter hex that consume those action points. We see in the game only two of the many functions, movement and fire. The concession here I believe is the abstracting of all other functions like radio contact, weapon loading, tank positioning, zero to target for the main gun etc etc into two functions movement or fire. In essence the game engine is trying to take into account all the little things that happen to a unit in a 6 minute time period. Remember real combat is very fluid, units are constently moving and repositioning themselves in that 250 meters. Also when its time to fire not all men or tanks are ready to fire at one pin point location. In fact I've never been in real combat but I have heard that in real combat situations its much less than structured like presented in this game. The game abstracts that the best it can for a turn based engine by the use of action points, 6minutes and 250 meters.

Thanks
Ivan the Big

[Scud]

I always thought the two "click" shots equal a unit's six minutes worth of shooting, not two literal shots.

Dave

[Skryabin]

A 3 strength T34/85 platoon moves into a wooded area and saves one shot for op fire, it's therefoe used say 3 minutes its time. A some enemy armoured cars pull up in front of it it fires, destroys one and they retreat. An halftrack with passenger now knowing the T34s are there and has probably use its op fire. It then pulls up in front of the T34 unloads it's infantry passengers. They then open fire on the T34's and destroy two of them.

Now I believe T34/85's would be able to fire at least 6 times in 6 minutes and probably double that so the game seems very wrong here.

Yes, I often think about this. Makes me feel that a good CS player operates game mechanics much more then realism of each particular situation...

But still, with all these turn based minuses it is much better than any RTS where you simply can not control all the units simultaneously.

Is something can be done with it in a future developments? I am almost sure - yes!


Dmitriy

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Page 67 of the game manual:

"When a unit attacks, the program actually conducts a number of attacks equal to the attacking
unit’s Strength Points. The number of SPs is halved (FRD, to minimum of one) if the attacking unit
is Low on Supply. The number of SPs can also be increased if the target hex is richly populated with
targets; see Direct Fire Target Density Value, below. The program then takes each individual result
and determines the net result vs. the defender. Attack vs. Defense strengths between those listed
in the Combat Results Table are calculated individually by the program on a prorated basis, based on the result probabilities of the two Combat Results Table lines the attack falls between."

As David pointed out, it is more than simple pulling the trigger twice in six minutes.



HSL

[Mike Abberton]

Considering that just about every tank and gun is limited to 2 shots per turn, I think it is safe to say that "shots" do not mean one tank round per click or even one tank round per SP (i.e. tank) per click. Actual rate of fire of the unit is likely wrapped into the soft/hard attack factor just like effectiveness of the individual rounds and accuracy of the platform. Certainly artillery, which also gets two shots per turn typically (some only get one), is firing more than one shell per click.

I am sure the developers would confirm that individual shots and their results are way below the level of abstraction of the CS series.

[Gordons HQ]

Thanks everyone I really do see it as an abstraction now. However it still seems a little limiting to me the number of times units can fire. As someone pointed out though it's the same for everything, so I guess it's no problem in the general sense of things.
I personally think the game could stand the ability to fire more times and that would make it more interesting but that's only my opinion for what it's worth.
Cheers Gordon