Old Bolt stuff

[Aaron]

I still have the 49.PSB with 3 to many Hinds but thats ok. They only had 13 Mi-24D

From where comes this information? I hope this is not based under current number of Mi-24D's? Today there is 13 of them, but initially we bought 16, and in early 90's another 18 from Germany. I found info that one crashed in 1988. So this would make 15 available Mi-24D's.

Sorry for being pain in the a... lately :)

Hell no ive got the goods even when all 16 were purchased, lost 3 to accidents in late 80s and 1 in 1990. Stuck it into a translator for everyone to read so it could look a little off in the words.

The first flight in Poland, the Mi-24D: 11 January 1979 The first public presentation of the Mi-24Dw Poland: WOSL, Deblin, 27 June 1979, television program "Polygon" of 11 October 1979 to exercise "Jubileusz'79. The first flight of the Mi-24W in Poland. The first 4 pieces of the Mi-24D hit the United Leźnicy (37 PST) - is not a mistake - (numbers, A 1013, A 1014, A 1015, A1016 - last 2 digits of the bar painted on the tail) 20 September 1978. From 28 November 1978 in the above. Key Helicopter Unit was formed under assault dow. Lieutenant A. FRICA., a unit to redeploy Świdwin April 22, 1979 year, where he began training.
In:
4 x Mi-24D in 1978,
4 x Mi-24D in October 1981,
6 x Mi-24D in October, November 1984,
2 x Mi-24D in July 1985

4 x Mi-24D took part in bombing raids from the classical to destroy the ice congestion in 1981 on the Vistula. In 1988, 2 x Mi-24D were destroyed in accidents, No 13 13 September 1988 in 13 hours after the review (not a joke), in 1990, another Mi-24D had an accident.

Aaron

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A few comments:

-The motorized infantry brigades in the Jutland Battlegroup each had an AT platoon of 4 TOW Landrovers (w. Thermal Sights ;)). Since you insist on consolidating these counters on a brigade/regimental level I believe this this should translate into one 12 vehicle counter.

Havnt we gone threw this before.;) Ill get those TOWs added , is that all of them this time. Are you sure Pedro didnt have one mounted to the roof of his house

-The implementation of Artilleriesturktur 85 in the W. German Army means that all tube artillery on Corps level goes to the divisions. This goes for LandJut as well. Thus the 640 and 630 artilleriebatallion should not be in existence anymore (besides, the total number of towed FH-70 howitzers and M110A2 Sp Howitzers possessed by Germany does not allow these units to exist once all Panzer, PzGrenadier and Mountain divisions has gotten their due of these guns). The only Corps level artillery for LandJut should be the 650 RaketenArtillerieBatalion (4 Lance) and the 33. Artilleriafdeling (24 155mm M59 Guns).

You are correct, eliminated the 630 and 640.

-I see the Flakregiment 600. It is a nice touch and eminently correct to include this unit. But why have you only included the regiment as it is in peacetime? (where the cadre of the unit mans the armys AA school in Rendsburg and trains the Gepard, Roland and 20mm FlaK units of the rest of the army). Upon mobilization this unit was slated to grow into the FlugAbwehrBatalion 610 (18 Roland in 3 batteries of 6). FlugAbwehrbatalion 620 (18 Gepard in 3 batteries of 6) and Flugabwehrbatalion 630 (24 Bofors 40mm radar guided towed guns in 4 batteries of 6 each). I understand you do not want to include the towed guns (you have not done so for the other german Korps), but the extra Gepards and Rolands might be in order.

Flugabwehrlehrbataillon 610 – Rendsburg
ANMERKUNG: Kader für das Flugabwehrregiment 600 (GerEinh) bzw. das
Flugabwehrbataillon 610 (GerEinh). Dem Bataillon ist im Frieden zu Ausbildungszwecken
auch die 2. Batterie des als Geräteeinheit geführten Flugabwehrbataillons 620 unterstellt.
1./FlaLehrBtl 610 (Stabs- und Versorgungsbatterie)
2./FlaLehrBtl 610 (Panzerflugabwehrraketenbatterie / Ausbildung, 6x FlaRakPz Roland, 36x Fliegerfaust 1)
3./FlaLehrBtl 610 (Panzerflugabwehrraketenbatterie / Ausbildung, 6x FlaRakPz Roland, 36x Fliegerfaust 1)
2./FlaBtl 620 (Panzerflugabwehrkanonenbatterie / Ausbildung, 6x FlakPz Gepard, 36x Fliegerfaust 1)
Fahrschulgruppe RENDSBURG 2

-I notice the german Airforce is present with their Roland launchers. I also note that these launchers are armored and mobile. As far as I know these launchers were mounted on top of MAN trucks (the Luftwaffe ones, not the german army ones) and intended for he mostly stationary defence of airfields (permanent or temporary). Thus they might benefit from being "Fixed" in order to avoid player staking airbase defence assets and uisng them to hoünd enemy helicopters?

We looked into this and after taking a second look at it just now it looks like i got the info for the CAROL (1995) mixed up with the MAN 6x6.

Thanks

Aaron

[JDR Dragoon]

Havnt we gone threw this before.:)

Somewhat. But riddle me this. If the US army can phase in the AN/TAS 4 in 1979 and the TOW2 in 1983, how come that an AN/TAS 4 equipped TOW launcher cannot fire ITOW missiles? ;)

Flugabwehrlehrbataillon 610 – Rendsburg
ANMERKUNG: Kader für das Flugabwehrregiment 600 (GerEinh) bzw. das
Flugabwehrbataillon 610 (GerEinh). Dem Bataillon ist im Frieden zu Ausbildungszwecken
auch die 2. Batterie des als Geräteeinheit geführten Flugabwehrbataillons 620 unterstellt.
1./FlaLehrBtl 610 (Stabs- und Versorgungsbatterie)
2./FlaLehrBtl 610 (Panzerflugabwehrraketenbatterie / Ausbildung, 6x FlaRakPz Roland, 36x Fliegerfaust 1)
3./FlaLehrBtl 610 (Panzerflugabwehrraketenbatterie / Ausbildung, 6x FlaRakPz Roland, 36x Fliegerfaust 1)
2./FlaBtl 620 (Panzerflugabwehrkanonenbatterie / Ausbildung, 6x FlakPz Gepard, 36x Fliegerfaust 1)
Fahrschulgruppe RENDSBURG 2

Like I said: Peacetime establishment (hence all the "Ausbildung" nomers). Ask Dragoner, he will tell you the same ;)

Thanks

No problem.

[Aaron]

Havnt we gone threw this before.:)

Somewhat. But riddle me this. If the US army can phase in the AN/TAS 4 in 1979 and the TOW2 in 1983, how come that an AN/TAS 4 equipped TOW launcher cannot fire ITOW missiles? ;)

Flugabwehrlehrbataillon 610 – Rendsburg
ANMERKUNG: Kader für das Flugabwehrregiment 600 (GerEinh) bzw. das
Flugabwehrbataillon 610 (GerEinh). Dem Bataillon ist im Frieden zu Ausbildungszwecken
auch die 2. Batterie des als Geräteeinheit geführten Flugabwehrbataillons 620 unterstellt.
1./FlaLehrBtl 610 (Stabs- und Versorgungsbatterie)
2./FlaLehrBtl 610 (Panzerflugabwehrraketenbatterie / Ausbildung, 6x FlaRakPz Roland, 36x Fliegerfaust 1)
3./FlaLehrBtl 610 (Panzerflugabwehrraketenbatterie / Ausbildung, 6x FlaRakPz Roland, 36x Fliegerfaust 1)
2./FlaBtl 620 (Panzerflugabwehrkanonenbatterie / Ausbildung, 6x FlakPz Gepard, 36x Fliegerfaust 1)
Fahrschulgruppe RENDSBURG 2

Like I said: Peacetime establishment (hence all the "Ausbildung" nomers). Ask Dragoner, he will tell you the same ;)

Thanks

No problem.

Cant remember whats up with the TOW, i do know TOW2 is has a bigger diameter so you cant fire a TOW2 missile out of a ITOW launcher. Thats the big deference in the 2 ITV variants, one got upgraded with the TOW2 launcher.

A couple weeks ago he dug up everything he could on Rolands and there wasnt many, besides all the ones in the scenario already there was only 6 more in a Naval Port, forget the name. Theres no more Rolands to add, most of the units were formed but no equipment.

Flugabwehrraketengruppe 41: , established September 29 1989, equipment: March 1990
Flugabwehrraketengruppe 42: established April 1, 1987, equipment: September 1987
Flugabwehrraketengruppe 43: established January 1, 1989, equipment: March 1990
Flugabwehrraketenstaffel 144 (GerEinh): established April 1, 1987, equipment: 1987 (no specific month named)

Flugabwehrraketengruppe 41, established September 1989, Hohenkirchen
- 1st Sq, 6x Roland, Hohenkirchen (in wartime: Fliegerhorst Jever)
- 2nd Sq, 6x Roland, Hohenkirchen (in wartime: Fliegerhorst Hopsten)
- 3rd Sq, 4x Roland, Hohenkirchen (in wartime: Fliegerhorst Wittmund)

Flugabwehrraketengruppe 42, establishd April 1987, Schöneck-Kilianstädten
- 1st Sq, 8x Roland, Schöneck-Kilianstädten (in wartime: Rhein Main Air Base, Frankfurt)
- 2nd Sq, 8x Roland, Schöneck-Kilianstädten (in wartime: Lindsey Air Station, Wiesbaden)
- 3rd Sq, 8x Roland, Heidenrod-Kemel (in wartime: Sembach Air Base)
- 4th Sq, 8x Roland, Heidenrod-Kemel (in wartime: Fliegerhorst Nörvenich)
- 5th Sq, 6x Roland, Heidenrod-Kemel (in wartime: Fliegerhorst Büchel)
- 6th Sq, 4x Roland, Schöneck-Kilianstädten (in wartime: Fliegerhorst Pferdsfeld)

Flugabwehrraketengruppe 43, established January 1989, Leipheim
- 1st Sq, 6x Roland, Leipheim (in wartime: Fliegerhorst Lechfeld)
- 2nd Sq, 6x Roland, Leipheim (in wartime: Fliegerhorst Memmingen)
- 3rd Sq, 6x Roland, Leipheim (in wartime: Fliegerhorst Erding)
- 4th Sq, 4x Roland, Leipheim (in wartime: Fliegerhorst Neuburg)
- 5th Sq, 4x Roland, Leipheim (in wartime: Fliegerhorst Bremgarten)

(separate) Flugabwehrraketenstaffel 144 (mob), established April 1987, Alt Duvenstedt-Krummenort, 4x Roland (in wartime: Fliegerhorst Leck). It's four Roland systems were used in peacetime for training with the Army Air Defense School in Rendsburg.

Additionally, the Navy started operating Roland in the late 80ies, replacing the ageing 40mm Flak L/70:
Flugabwehrstaffel MFG 1, Jagel, 6x Roland, December 1988
Flugabwehrstaffel MFG 2, Eggebek, 6x Roland, October 1989
Flugabwehrstaffel MFG 3, Nordholz, 6x Roland, February 1990

Found out now when the Roland-squadrons got operational status:

1/41: April 1990
2/41: April 1990
3/41: December 1990 (provisionally; some pre-series-models of Roland had to be reworked, the last of it delivered in 1992)

1/42: June 1988
2/42: October 1988
3/42: April 1989
4/42: January 1989
5/42: July 1989
6/42: July 1989

1/43: August 1989
2/43, 4/43 and 5/43: no specific date, from summer of 1989 to summer of 1990
3/43: mid 1990, last squadron of Group 43 that got operational status

Aaron

---

Now everything is very minor but anyways everytime i post a new version i get a rush of tweaks for about 7 days after so heres what im going to do, you guys have till next Thursday to let me no these little changes to be made and ill repost it again next Friday but thats it, after that youll have to wait for Santa.

Aaron

[JDR Dragoon]

Cant remember whats up with the TOW, i do know TOW2 is has a bigger diameter so you cant fire a TOW2 missile out of a ITOW launcher. Thats the big deference in the 2 ITV variants, one got upgraded with the TOW2 launcher.

Well, the AN/TAS 4 (the Thermal Sight) is essentially an accessory. You just smack it on to the TOW launcher (or connect it by datalink if you are in an M901 w. an elevating turret) install the appriate upgrade into the launch software and away you go.

A couple weeks ago he dug up everything he could on Rolands and there wasnt many, besides all the ones in the scenario already there was only 6 more in a Naval Port, forget the name. Theres no more Rolands to add, most of the units were formed but no equipment.

Aaron

AFAIK the german army had around 140 SP armored Roland launchers (mounted on the same chassis as the Marder IFV). That allows plenty of room to equip all 3 Korps (3x36) while still leaving 18 launchers to use for FlAbwRegiment 600.

[Aaron]

Cant remember whats up with the TOW, i do know TOW2 is has a bigger diameter so you cant fire a TOW2 missile out of a ITOW launcher. Thats the big deference in the 2 ITV variants, one got upgraded with the TOW2 launcher.

Well, the AN/TAS 4 (the Thermal Sight) is essentially an accessory. You just smack it on to the TOW launcher (or connect it by datalink if you are in an M901 w. an elevating turret) install the appriate upgrade into the launch software and away you go.

A couple weeks ago he dug up everything he could on Rolands and there wasnt many, besides all the ones in the scenario already there was only 6 more in a Naval Port, forget the name. Theres no more Rolands to add, most of the units were formed but no equipment.

Aaron

AFAIK the german army had around 140 SP armored Roland launchers (mounted on the same chassis as the Marder IFV). That allows plenty of room to equip all 3 Korps (3x36) while still leaving 18 launchers to use for FlakRegiment 600.

HaHa, i knew what you were talking about, the problem lies in TOW/Milan launchers overall in the scenario, yes some had thermal for sure and yes some didnt have thermal and alot of times in the same unit, OVERALL theres no way to tell who had what and who didnt so to keeps things nice in even nobody gets them. That makes it simple because if i give them to someone somebody will ask why these other guys didnt get them. (The TOW2 missile itself did have better thermal quality's then the ITOW.)

Aaron

Now everything is very minor but anyways everytime i post a new version i get a rush of tweaks for about 7 days after so heres what im going to do, you guys have till next Thursday to let me no these little changes to be made and ill repost it again next Friday but thats it, after that youll have to wait for Santa.

Aaron

[anton dolf]

Roland System of the German Air Force/Luftwaffe

based on MAN 8x8 Chassis, dont on Marder-tracked-Chassis

Picture: http://www.bredow-web.de/Drohnen_und_Rak...Roland.jpg

[greg]

Roland System of the German Air Force/Luftwaffe

based on MAN 8x8 Chassis, dont on Marder-tracked-Chassis

Picture: http://www.bredow-web.de/Drohnen_und_Rak...Roland.jpg

Roland Carol entered production in 1995 with 20 systems delivered to the French Army and 11 to the German Air Force.

So no one in 1989 .

[anton dolf]

http://www.flarakgrp42.de/technik/roland...ommen.html


Roland/Patriot-Deal USAF-Luftwaffe from 1983
60 Units Roland on Wheel for the GAF plus 27for the defense 3 US-Air Bases in Germany. First Launcher 1986 in Servive in the Luftwaffe. 1989 all Units full.

[Aaron]

http://www.flarakgrp42.de/technik/roland...ommen.html


Roland/Patriot-Deal USAF-Luftwaffe from 1983
60 Units Roland on Wheel for the GAF plus 27for the defense 3 US-Air Bases in Germany. First Launcher 1986 in Servive in the Luftwaffe. 1989 all Units full.

Roland Carol entered production in 1995 with 20 systems delivered to the French Army and 11 to the German Air Force.

So no one in 1989 .

You info is correct but the Carol is not the same as the MAN version.

Your both wrong, didnt you look a couple posts back i posted all the AF roland units and dates that they were formed and got their equipment. For a more in depth look go back a couple posts.

Flugabwehrraketengruppe 41: , established September 29 1989, equipment: March 1990
Flugabwehrraketengruppe 42: established April 1, 1987, equipment: September 1987
Flugabwehrraketengruppe 43: established January 1, 1989, equipment: March 1990
Flugabwehrraketenstaffel 144 (GerEinh): established April 1, 1987, equipment: 1987 (no specific month named)

I didnt have much to work with but i think this will do.

Aaron
[attachment=2726]

Everything mentioned so far is done and up to date on my end.

[greg]

http://www.flarakgrp42.de/technik/roland...ommen.html


Roland/Patriot-Deal USAF-Luftwaffe from 1983
60 Units Roland on Wheel for the GAF plus 27for the defense 3 US-Air Bases in Germany. First Launcher 1986 in Servive in the Luftwaffe. 1989 all Units full.

Roland Carol entered production in 1995 with 20 systems delivered to the French Army and 11 to the German Air Force.

So no one in 1989 .

You info is correct but the Carol is not the same as the MAN version.

Your both wrong, didnt you look a couple posts back i posted all the AF roland units and dates that they were formed and got their equipment. For a more in depth look go back a couple posts.

Flugabwehrraketengruppe 41: , established September 29 1989, equipment: March 1990
Flugabwehrraketengruppe 42: established April 1, 1987, equipment: September 1987
Flugabwehrraketengruppe 43: established January 1, 1989, equipment: March 1990
Flugabwehrraketenstaffel 144 (GerEinh): established April 1, 1987, equipment: 1987 (no specific month named)

I didnt have much to work with but i think this will do.

Aaron


Everything mentioned so far is done and up to date on my end.

Okyour right.