Large Encirclements in PzC

[Bacillus98]

I was curious if large encirclements of whole divisions/corps and possibly even armies are attainable in the campaign games of PzC. For example, I am really interested in playing the Vyazma campaign, but I wonder if the Germans can trap the Soviets. Historically the Wehrmacht forced back elements of 19th, 20th, 24th, and 32nd Soviet Armies and encircled them along with elements of two other armies west of Vyazma. The 3rd and 4th Panzer Armies linked up on 7 October to form the Vyazma pocket. The pocket took 5 days to form, but much longer to liquidate.

Since playing some extremely challenging opponents, I learned a defender can simply retreat, moving fresh units into stacks that have been disrupted and creating small wedges behind the lines so units don't become isolated. Instead of pocketing large amounts of soldiers, it becomes a shootout, meaning one attacks mainly by direct fire instead of assault. Significant operational movement ceases to exist and it becomes a shooting gallery for the Germans. So I ask this: How does one use the Germans to encircle large pockets of Soviet troops in the early blitzkrieg years (mainly Smolensk/Moscow in 1941)?

[Marquo]

Let's play and I will show you :-)

Marquo

[Liebchen]

The word "schwerpunkt" comes to mind...

Smolensk, Kharkov, Stalingrad, these are exceptional examples of titles where this can happen. You have to play a large enough scenario, of course. :-)

[Rev Rico]

Yes, quite possible. I've even seen it happen in Bulge 44, too, when both 2 & 99 IDs were isolated at Elsenborn. Speed, massing of forces, and enough exploitation forces can get it done.

[Mr Grumpy]

I am playing the F40 CG and as Germans we have created and destroyed several large pockets of Belgium/French troops.

[raizer]

k42 I have trapped and eliminated large german formations and Dog did it to me last year in S42-breakout group Z, while he was pushing russians. It can be done-but one needs good speedy terrain/good weather and good viz and mistakes by the opponent-sometimes a one hex opening is all someone needs to exploit your errors, and the exploitation will be all the more greater depending on the factors above: terrain, viz and ground conditions...
Try Minsk...even in those swampy maps, if the germans dont start moving back asap, they will be trapped. And in one scenario...5th guards attacks, I think it is...you do well just to have the 78th sturm surrounded and wiped as long as you get the other divisions out.

[Bacillus98]

Thanks for the replies. I've always been curious about Minsk game, since I wondered if the Germans can simply retreat to avoid being surrounded. Are there high VP cost on towns/cities to encourage a defensive stand? Cities like Mogilev and Minsk were designated "Festungs" by Hitler.

[Tide1]

Thanks for the replies. I've always been curious about Minsk game, since I wondered if the Germans can simply retreat to avoid being surrounded. Are there high VP cost on towns/cities to encourage a defensive stand? Cities like Mogilev and Minsk were designated "Festungs" by Hitler.

I played the campaign once and knowing the history I started withdrawing units the very first turn but it did no good. I still had a large amount of units surounded in pockets. They just cannot out run the Russian mech units.

[von Nev]

FWIW, in the Minsk campaign I played as the Germans, I pocketed about 2 - 3 divisions worth of Russians including armor on the southern flank when they essentially broke through and overextended their flanks.

Marty

[Bacillus98]

Impressive, Von Nev. Do you know if during the full campaign if it's possible for the Russians to destroy approx. 28 German divisions? I am not sure if there is a historical setup, where German units are fixed, which facilitates the vengeful Russians. I have only played short/medium scenarios in various other PzC, so I am curious to know if the Minsk 44 campaign game really carves up AGC.