Special Rules for WinSP

[low_bidder]

"I don't believe that anyone has tried the coordinated battles before. Note these are quite different from a campaign. "

Double Duce did it back in about '01 or '02. Maybe farther back then that. I helped with some of the maps, which were 40x40 maps. IIRC, DD was the moderator and he would place units on the next map when you fought your way to it. It was a WW2 set-up. '43 I think. You might want to check with DD, He is on the ladder I think. That might save you re-inventing the wheel. On the other hand you might come up with a better solution to some of the problems. I know transferring units to the next map would be easier today since the map editor didn't have cut and paste back then. I think there was a 10 hex edge which you had to have your units in before they would 'teleport' to the next map. I was also a partner game. That was before the multi-machine security patch.

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I was also a partner game.
Should be IT was also a partner game.

I was never a partner game. My wife had pretty firm ideas about that sort of stuff.
Just for the record.

[Cross]

I am thinking about playing a battle or campaign without any V-hexes.
What are the pros and cons of not using any V-hexes?

One of the reasons for this, is to avoid sneaky units grabbing V-hexes in the last turn or two. Does anyone have any other solutions to avoid this problem?

Another thing I may try, is lumping all the V-hexes together in two to six V-hex blocks. Then I would only have to defend a couple of areas towards the end of the battle, instead of a dozen or more scattered around the battlefield.

The battle result would be based on losses only. If the Blitz score system is used, this means to win you need to do 33% more damage to your opponent than he did to you.



cheers,
Cross

[Epoletov [SPR].]

To place VH on the present in strategic points - the bridge, a crossroads of roads, city centre.
It logically also adds sense in all battle.

VH - accustom to leave protection near them.
Their protection should not be a problem if you certainly have not passed to yourselves in rear Company or Battallion Indians. :)

To use reasonable quantity VH, depending on the size of a battlefield.
Also cost = 1 + SP Score the table - a successful combination.

[Vesku]

If you have no objectives your battle may end premature when one side fails its morale check. Do the thing from AP tourney to avoid that.

[Gila]

I am thinking about playing a battle or campaign without any V-hexes.
What are the pros and cons of not using any V-hexes?

One of the reasons for this, is to avoid sneaky units grabbing V-hexes in the last turn or two. Does anyone have any other solutions to avoid this problem?

Another thing I may try, is lumping all the V-hexes together in two to six V-hex blocks. Then I would only have to defend a couple of areas towards the end of the battle, instead of a dozen or more scattered around the battlefield.

The battle result would be based on losses only. If the Blitz score system is used, this means to win you need to do 33% more damage to your opponent than he did to you.



cheers,
Cross

Good concept,
Many want VO's so why not have some Major grouped in the REAR for HQ's for each side and minor VO's to each side or mix them, always far from the front in meeters,that should eliminate last turn grabs:)
That also takes fighting for VO's, out and more destruction of the enemy"First" on more equal terms than delayed or defense.
If they gotten that far to your rear then point's are deserved.

[Cross]

To place VH on the present in strategic points - the bridge, a crossroads of roads, city centre.
It logically also adds sense in all battle.

VH - accustom to leave protection near them.
Their protection should not be a problem if you certainly have not passed to yourselves in rear Company or Battallion Indians. :)

Hi Epoletov,

I have been a big advocate of VH on bridges, hills etc. But if these features truly have strategic value, then perhaps they don't need a VH sitting on them to make them worth capturing.

I try to protect all my VH, but sometimes it's not possible when they are spread all over the map. If I am winning, and have pushed the enemy back, and have captured 4 VH; in the end game I have to defend 14 VH the enemy only 6. This means I have to move a lot of troops from the front line to my rear VH to make sure no sneaky units are waiting to grab them on the last turn.

In a recent battle I had 2 undamaged infantry sections defending 1 VH, in an area where no enemy had been spotted for over 10 turns. One section was sitting on the VH in a stone building, the other section was next to the VH in rough ground. A motorcycle unit attacked them, and entered the stone building, capturing the flag even though my infantry were still in the building. My infantry fought off the MC unit but both infantry were pinned, and did not rally. Therefore the flag/VH was lost to the enemy.

Do I need to put 3 infantry sections to defend 1 VH? This means at the end of a battle I am winning, I have to move 30 infantry sections to my rear in case the enemy wants to snatch VHs...

If you have no objectives your battle may end premature when one side fails its morale check. Do the thing from AP tourney to avoid that.

Hi Vesku,

What is the thing from the AP tourney?



cheers,
Cross

[Epoletov [SPR].]

I have been a big advocate of VH on bridges, hills etc. But if these features truly have strategic value, then perhaps they don't need a VH sitting on them to make them worth capturing.

I try to protect all my VH, but sometimes it's not possible when they are spread all over the map. If I am winning, and have pushed the enemy back, and have captured 4 VH; in the end game I have to defend 14 VH the enemy only 6. This means I have to move a lot of troops from the front line to my rear VH to make sure no sneaky units are waiting to grab them on the last turn.

VH should not be much that it was not necessary to keep 10 - 20 units in the rear.
The quantity and deploy VH - is a creative process. :cool:

In a recent battle I had 2 undamaged infantry sections defending 1 VH, in an area where no enemy had been spotted for over 10 turns. One section was sitting on the VH in a stone building, the other section was next to the VH in rough ground. A motorcycle unit attacked them, and entered the stone building, capturing the flag even though my infantry were still in the building. My infantry fought off the MC unit but both infantry were pinned, and did not rally. Therefore the flag/VH was lost to the enemy.

Do I need to put 3 infantry sections to defend 1 VH? This means at the end of a battle I am winning, I have to move 30 infantry sections to my rear in case the enemy wants to snatch VHs...

Capture VH in last turn should be outside of the law, dishonest game.
Then at lost VH the chance will back return it.

And / or if on one VH are located units both countries to give its defended or to consider this VH neutral.

[Imp]

I am thinking about playing a battle or campaign without any V-hexes.
What are the pros and cons of not using any V-hexes?

This is my understanding
Firstly though dont do this verses the AI will cause problems but for PBEM should just be able to clear using C changing all to neutral if need to. Then just leave in the hex if out of the way.

Can set value for all to zero at the same time if wish as game will be scored just on destruction of forces.

Game length may be effected slightly as follows.
Game can overrun if a victory hex is still contested, good order unit within about 7 hexes of a neutral or enemy flag, this obviously wont happen.

Not sure here but think points for hexes held count towards sides morale for purposes of determining when it collapses.
Example assume Force Morale breaks when lose 50% of your force if own no flags but each flag gives a minor boost perhaps based on points I dont know. So if owned half a dozen flags force morale might break around the 55% lost mark.
I think this is a good thing as sometimes can drag on once the situation is hopeless but to get round it could leave one neutral flag & assign 10 each to both sides. Place all for that side in 1 hex out of the way, could do the same with neutral flag or stick it somewhere sensible. As said possibly setting flags to there max value might mean both forces can take higher loses before Force Moral breaks

Think this is the only impact it will have on a PBEM game apart from not giving away positions as it changes.
So overall effect is games may end slightly earlier if one side is getting slaughtered.

Other Flag placement thoughts.
Do place on sensible objectives but consider what gives away also.
Crossroads or roads in general place adj to not on the road to stop silly driving round tactics.
Good cover like buildings etc again consider placing buy it if gives good fields of fire.
To a certain extent this can be negated by placing most flags pre owned by the Nation that starts on that side.
Placing multiple flags in one hex also cuts down on the giveaway aspect of them. One multiflag hex in the centre of a village gives away a lot less & normal tactics means you will try & clean out the rest of the village to keep it safe once you have it.
Also more realistic in my view to have 1 to 5 tops objectives with a max of 2 as the main objectives. Anything else is really mopping up so enemy elimination.

@ Cross my work on map database has shut down for the forseable future due to RL, will try & get back to at some point but at present cant even say its on the back burner

[Vesku]

What is the thing from the AP tourney?

cheers,
Cross

It's in the rules but in short, place a minor value flag of both sides into a corner and agree that you are not allowed to capture those.

[Gibratar]

Hi,

I couple of remarks on the comments.

1 Coordinated battles.
The idea here is not to have one battle a continuation of the other but to have them played at the same time.
The prime candidate is a battle on map 1 with force A having off-map artillery.
On map 2 force A would have the SAME artillery on the map as he had Off-map in map 1. Force B could then attack the artillery on Map2 any artillery units destroyed on map2 would be taken from service on map1

2 Strategic value of bridges.
It is possible for a bridge to have stategic value in terms of the war but have little tactical value in a particular battle.

EG the bridges taken by paras in the early hours of D day had great strategic value, but would have little value in a single WinSP game.

3VHs taken in the last turn.

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3 Vhs taken in the last turn.

I think the standard Blitz rules state that such VHs only count 50%