Looking for a clear explanation...

[GUNSLNGR]

Thanks to everyone for their input. This proved very helpful to me and hope many others as well.

I have laminated Cross' penetration chart and it now lays next to my gaming computer. I highly recommend it.

I feel like the last kid in Algebra class that finally figured out the problem. And much like that kid, I can't wait to kill something now.

Happy Hunting,

[Brahmin3]

The slope of the armour is already factored into the armour thickness.

...Or stated independently, if you take more advanced system of SPW@W.

[Cross]

Cross - your chart is excellent, and will definately help with the range/penetration issue. Question: Why are the ranges on some weapons at ###?

If you see “###” in the spreadsheet, it’s just the way your PC is displaying the data. Try making the font a bit smaller, and you should see the numbers.

[img][/img]

I have laminated Cross' penetration chart and it now lays next to my gaming computer. I highly recommend it.

Oops…I just updated the weapons guide. I noticed that the designers changed the British 25Pdr (88mm) sabot in the last update. The 25Pdr sabot simulates the 25Pdrs AP solid round.

It went from PEN 10 Range 1200, to PEN 8 Range 3500.

Now it has less penetration at close range, but greater penetration at longer ranges.

This is a sensible change IMHO.

The second change I made, was to slightly adjust the Russian penetration results.

In my earlier weapons guide the Russian results were still from my penetration calculator, not the designers calculator; as I hadn’t got around to updating them. The difference is only 1cm on some of the results, but may as well go with the more accurate figures.

I'll attach the most recent guide to this post, in A4 and in Letter size.

Sorry about that Nick

The slope of the armour is already factored into the armour thickness.

...Or stated independently, if you take more advanced system of SPW@W.

WaW lists the Panther front hull as 80mm at 55deg. But then WaW calculates the thickness and angle during combat, to come up with a result of 140mm?

Neither WaW or SPWW2 calculate vertical angles; so I’m not sure there’s a difference, apart from how SPWW2 has already done the calculation for you?

But it is nice to see the actual armour thickness and angle in the WaW unit information screen.

[low_bidder]

Now that the muddy water has cleared a bit, here comes another dirt clod.
The game does do 'over penetration'. That is what happens when his 88 hits your halftrack at 50 meters and goes thru one side and out the other. MANY historical examples of this happening. Trucks, Jeeps, etc. too.
It the shot doesn't hit anything solid enough to stop it, then it won't stop.
As far as being +2 levels higher, The game used to have 'hull down' in it, where the hit % was reduced to account for the only target being the turret. If that was the case, then only turret armor was considered IF you got a hit. Not sure if the calc was ran to determine hull or turret hit and hull hits ignored or if it was Just a modifier for size ( turret is smaller). Not even sure if it's still in the game. It used to be several versions ago that a hull down tank was harder to kill. Except for the Soviet tanks, which couldn't get hull down (by NATO standards, it means something different to the Red Army) because their gun couldn't depress enough. I think hull down was dropped about ver 2.5 Although I really don't know. It used to be Leo's and Chieftains were extremely hard to kill when hull down. They don't seem to be any more difficult then any other MBT in the newer versions of the game.

[GUNSLNGR]

Cross - your chart is excellent, and will definately help with the range/penetration issue. Question: Why are the ranges on some weapons at ###?

If you see “###” in the spreadsheet, it’s just the way your PC is displaying the data. Try making the font a bit smaller, and you should see the numbers.

[img][/img]

I have laminated Cross' penetration chart and it now lays next to my gaming computer. I highly recommend it.

Oops…I just updated the weapons guide. I noticed that the designers changed the British 25Pdr (88mm) sabot in the last update. The 25Pdr sabot simulates the 25Pdrs AP solid round.

It went from PEN 10 Range 1200, to PEN 8 Range 3500.

Now it has less penetration at close range, but greater penetration at longer ranges.

This is a sensible change IMHO.

The second change I made, was to slightly adjust the Russian penetration results.

In my earlier weapons guide the Russian results were still from my penetration calculator, not the designers calculator; as I hadn’t got around to updating them. The difference is only 1cm on some of the results, but may as well go with the more accurate figures.

I'll attach the most recent guide to this post, in A4 and in Letter size.

Sorry about that Nick

No worries Cross. I've already printed the latest version.

What I love about this, and SP in general, is that it gives me just enough science to decide whether or not to pull the trigger. Once I do there are a myriad of factors, not the least of which is random luck, that decides the outcome. It can be frustrating, but so is real life.

[Imp]

What I love about this, and SP in general, is that it gives me just enough science to decide whether or not to pull the trigger. Once I do there are a myriad of factors, not the least of which is random luck, that decides the outcome. It can be frustrating, but so is real life

For me its what makes this game you know what should happen but things dont always go as they should in combat situations.
Nearly always seem to happen when its important causing a sudden change in plans or that "Oh heck" how do we get out of that moment.
You remember these whether its the fluke 3% shot that created an opening or the unit that just refused to give up & die.

[Cross]

What I love about this, and SP in general, is that it gives me just enough science to decide whether or not to pull the trigger. Once I do there are a myriad of factors, not the least of which is random luck, that decides the outcome. It can be frustrating, but so is real life.

That's the way. A little science and plenty of intuition.

Hull Down

AFVs get a partial hull down by being on an elevation higher than the firer; making it harder to hit. It also causes less hull and more turret hits.

AFVs also get cover from being stationary in rough, rubble etc. or by entering a trench.

You can also 'dig in' a tank in an assault/advance battle.

That's about it I think.