MapMod for First World War Campaigns

Nitram Draw · 06-02-2010, 06:35 AM,

(06-02-2010, 06:21 AM)Sch Wrote: This is the kind of attitude why these games are only available for only a very limited audience.

And this is the kind of attitude why these games -if they remain unable to evolve- will eventually extinct.

When the "oldschool wargamers" are gone noone will play with such programs anymore.
And why would they? Nowadays one can run the latest games in 1920x1080 with astonishing visuals. Why would anyone without the tabletop war games backround pay full price for such an obsolote looking software?

It must be because of my age (iam 22), but i simply cannot understand what keeps from HPS from hiring 3 or so capable men to create the modern visuals their otherwise excellent games deserve.

The start of a new series (the ww1 campaigns) would have been a good opportunity to release a product with a new look.
But naaah, lets just keep the engine we used in the past 20 years.
Why change?

What sort of visuals do you have in mind? Puffs of smoke when the artillery fires? Explosions in the hex where you assault?
The reason the game engine hasn't changed much is because it does a good job at what it is designed to do. I would rather have a good game with dull graphics than a dull game with good graphics.

bdtj1815 · (This post was last modified: 06-02-2010, 07:06 AM by bdtj1815.)

I have been wargaming for over thirty-five years, back to the days of SPI and GDW, and own all the Pzc titles and some MC titles. I do, however, have considerable sympathy with "Sch"s comments. Whilst the hard core of HPS gamers know about the mods and sites like this and Campaign France I am sure there are many who buy a game, maybe because a particular campaign interests them for personal, family or educational reasons, who take one look at the undeniably poor graphics and would never consider buying a second. Similarly I am sure many newcomers, particularly if younger and more aware of modern computer graphics etc., might never get beyond looking at the screenshots on the HPS website and wonder if they are actually visiting a site dedicated to games of the '90s. I think I would struggle to want to play one of the titles without the brilliant art mods that are available.

I am not suggesting we need "Puffs of smoke when the artillery fires? Explosions in the hex where you assault? but some half decent unit art and a more attractive map might actually attract some new players. I would be interested to hear from someone at HPS if there is any evidence of "new recruits" or just "the usual suspects" purchasing their games.

I have a very similar issue in the only other computer gaming field I enjoy, simracing. The number of times on racing game forums I have read comments such as "the new 1.6 patch" or the new so and so physics mod make this game so much better forgetting that many people do not even know about patches or mods but try and struggle on with the basic game and probably never buy a second.

**Mr Grumpy** · (This post was last modified: 06-02-2010, 07:17 AM by Mr Grumpy.)

(06-02-2010, 06:21 AM)Sch Wrote: It must be because of my age (iam 22), but i simply cannot understand what keeps from HPS from hiring 3 or so capable men to create the modern visuals their otherwise excellent games deserve.

Yes it is very much an age thing, you have grown up with the latest PC games with all their flash/slick graphics that are just not necessary for us "old boys" to enjoy a strategy game because the stratergy is what is important to us not the look of the game, if it is the case that many people consider CM out of date then PzC is positively ancient! LOL

As an analogy, it is the same with many modern films, most younger people will not go to see a film unless it has had many millions spent in CGI (and that fact is very prominent in the advertising) and acting/story-lines now very much take a back seat, where as us old boys can see through the flashy scenes and laugh at the bad acting and terrible (or non existent) story lines!

When you say after the film that you thought it was poor, they look at you as if you were mad and say "but the explosions were wicked and those flying monsters were awesome! :rolleyes:

I know, i know i am a dinosaur and i can't even fly! Big Grin

Anyway we thought VM at 31 was the youngest player, you beat him by quite a margin. :)

Nitram Draw · (This post was last modified: 06-02-2010, 08:11 AM by Nitram Draw.)

(06-02-2010, 07:04 AM)bdtj1815 Wrote: I have a very similar issue in the only other computer gaming field I enjoy, simracing. The number of times on racing game forums I have read comments such as "the new 1.6 patch" or the new so and so physics mod make this game so much better forgetting that many people do not even know about patches or mods but try and struggle on with the basic game and probably never buy a second.

One thing they could do that would be a nice feature would be to offer an Auto-Update feature that you could turn on so that if you started a game and you were connected to the net you could be offered the latest patch. They could also link to other sites where mods were available.
About the graphics, when you come down to it, this series is a boardgame with a computer doing all the busy work. Given the number of counters in some games it would be difficult to animate the counters or the combat. It may be old but then again so is my computer (another advantage to the series in my book!):)

Tide1 · (This post was last modified: 06-02-2010, 08:18 AM by Tide1.)

I have to agree with Draw and I have to say I enjoy the boardgame look also. It's alot easier to play a game letting the puter do the busy work plus I don't have to worry about the cat jumping up on the gameboard and scattering the counters :angry: Also playing other people via PBEM is alot of fun :)

Jison · 06-02-2010, 08:18 AM,

Backed by countless of mails, comments and feedback over the years, I can as a modder vouch for that it is a myth that wargamers don't care about looks. Sure, there are those that don't - but I would say the majority does. For some reason this is a very sensitive subject - it shouldn't be. We can discuss and wish for all kinds of improvments to the games in a friendly atmosphere, but not the visuals... Why is that?

Btw: I'm 46, and I still enjoy a good looking game. :)

Jison

Tide1 · 06-02-2010, 08:26 AM,

I would love to see That Locknload game hit the market. Heros of Stalingrad I think it's called. If HPS did the 3D thing I would still play the games but that's what we have Matrix Games for ;)

**Mr Grumpy** · 06-02-2010, 08:33 AM,

OK thanks for everybodys input, we seem to be falling into two "camps" here with Camp A players wishing for improved graphics and Camp B those who really don't care.

Just goes to show (again) that it is great that modders like Jison give up their free time to create choice with improved graphic Mods for Camp A while there are players like me in Camp B who will play the games regardless of how they look.

Of course despite my POV i can still appreciate what they do for the community and always promote their work for the Camp A guys. :bow:

I don't think it is a particularly sensitive subject, we are having a friendly chat about it here........:)

........and i have been Camp enough........:eek1: ;)

Jison · 06-02-2010, 08:53 AM,

(06-02-2010, 08:33 AM)Foul. Wrote: Just goes to show (again) that it is great that modders like Jison give up their free time to create choice with improved graphic Mods...

In no way did I mean that the mails, comments and feedback I have recieved over the years was positive only - just that they show that the visuals engage people. ;)

Jison