Bailed Out Crews Question

[GUNSLNGR]

As my front line troops have been overrun and my mortar crews had run out of ammo, I thought to myself - "I'll send these guys in to plug some holes." They were afterall armed with Kar 98 rifles in addition to their now useless mortar tubes.

So I "shift @'d" them and sent them into the fray. A crew was approached by some Russian riflemen and...nothing. They didn't shoot at or back at the Russians. Why? I quickly checked their weapon inventory and to my horror discovered that they had left their rifles with the mortars, and where now only armed with 9mm pistols and handgrenades.:curse:

Obviously IRL a crew abandoning its crew served weapon would take thier small arms with them - so why leave the rifles behind? I know that crews become almost another unit type when they abandon or bail out - but come on. :angry:

Is this a code issue or is there some way to prevent this?

[Walrus]

It is the way it has always been bro.
They are not there to be used as troops.
Their best use once they have run away from their main weapon (or truck) is to toss smoke grenades to help the rest of your troops.
Crews do indeed become a different unit typs (Crew) once they bail out. Nothing you can do about that.

If you want to use their rifles, they have to stay with their mortars

On thing I dislike is truck drivers doing their transport thing, then being dismounted to become cheap scouts (recon by death usually), especially if it is quite a fleet of trucks disgorging their crews at the start of the battle...I find that very gamey.

However, crews who have been shot out of their ride (or gun) are quite handy to plug holes in the lines. I don't mind that.

Anyway...it's no bug...good luck!

[Imp]

All crews are generic the only diffrence is the number of men, in reality even a lot of tank crews could take better weapons with them at least on a voluntary bail.

Crews normally are not well trained with small arms however they are for there protection while trying to escape hence the fact they are given smoke.
Crews should therefore run for cover not head towards the enemy doing so is a game tactic only, dont do it these guys are valuable they can operate equipment others cant.

That said I agree the likes of light mortar crews are probably combat trained but will carry little ammo as they were lugging the mortar.

Could try posting at the official site but think I know there answer. How often does it happen & you have eye of god complete control over your units.
If they become a fighting unit as in squad like they need a value once split from the mortar, probably not possible or to hard to program for the odd time used.

[GUNSLNGR]

I guess it is one of those where I may not like the answer, but that's the answer.

I haven't done any thorough research on it, but infantry mortar crews should be able to handle rifles or SMG's - with or without a mortar. That'd go for tank crews and truck drivers. I would agree that they may lack some specific squad tactic training and certainly wouldn't have the skills of a scout squad.

I suppose the bail out option is more for survivability than anything else - but in this case it's not running away in abject fear, it's re-evaluating thier current condition. They could lug these heavy useless mortars and quickly be overrun or they can leave the mortars in place, grab a rifle, and get in the fight.

Oh well, one more for my SP wish list - I'll add it just below being able to direct fire on buildings in LOS.

Thanks Guys.

Nick S.

[Imp]

Not been in the military but everyone can I assume use small arms even the cook its the level of training.
Infantry practice firing rifles LMGs etc & infantry tactics while crews & support staff practice whatever they do whether its firing an arty piece or driving a tank.
So for all but perhaps light mortar teams its a last resort we are not happy tactic.

Oh well, one more for my SP wish list - I'll add it just below being able to direct fire on buildings in LOS

Im intrested why? To rubble it when its empty

[GUNSLNGR]

Oh well, one more for my SP wish list - I'll add it just below being able to direct fire on buildings in LOS

Im intrested why? To rubble it when its empty
[/quote]

Mainly to target infantry that may be hiding in buildings unseen, but I could see where reducing to rubble could be desirable as well.

I don't want to get started on the whole "z-fire" thing (it's been covered again and again) - but there are many times when targeting a building in your LOS of sight would be used. For instance, if a group of infantry are approaching a village and are concerned about snipers or hidden squads - you may want to light up the buildings to suppress or kill those unseen troop. This was a common tactic in WW2. Secondly, you may be taking fire from a building but you can't see the shooter - but you know that he's in the building. So you light it up. The problem with z-fire is that it simulates non-direct fire, so you can't target a structure or a land mark (like a cluster of trees or a hill top), where you know the bad guys are - but you can't see them (except muzzle flashes).

I know z-fire simulates "area fire," but a key component of infantry tactics is "covering fire" where you are targeting something specific not just a general area. This is lacking in WinSP.

Again a wish list thing, as I know that this would be extremely difficult to "write" into WinSP. And please don't take any of this as a complaint (you designers and Shrapnel guys)...I love this game.

[Walrus]

You can still z-fire into hexes in your LOS.
It sprays around a bit , but far less than z-fire into a non-LOS hex.

I use this tactic often to suppress units that are unsighted but that you know are in building x or tree y

As for the crews. I think the initial idea to have them was all to do with the campaigns. The experience your units gains over time does not reside in the tank or gun, but in the crew themselves. Thus if they get brewed up but survive, they become worth 'saving' especially if they have many kills.
It's actually quite a fun part of a game trying to rescue a favorite crew from certain death :-)

Anyway...the fact they should probably be able to take part in the battle proper with the weapons they 'should' have...is academic. They will never change this aspect of the game IMO.
Often it mean you get an unrealistic situation...but we put up with those all the time in SP eh

Cheers

[Gila]

Getting a little more OT here,
I agree that there should be direct arty (with LOS) fire on suspect buildings or woods and anywhere for that matter,
Many times in War if buildings are supected to have snipers or small mmg units not visable, the commander would order them dropped.
Trouble is it would need a different code separate from z-fire or there would be all rifles and mmgs or whatever able to do so also,
That would open another problem with some or most players.:hissy:

[Walrus]

Yep...a hail of never ending z-fire (or the new direct to LOS fire) and extremely boring replays, and games in general :(

I prefer it the way things are, random z-fire and an agreement to limit it a bit (to support weapons only) to get a better game.
Just my opinion though.
Each to their own eh.

cheers

[GUNSLNGR]

UGH...I didn't mean to get Walrus worked up on Z-fire again...

I think though we are confusing area fire and covering fire. I agree that firing z-fire into an area you have LOS is more accurate than indirect z-fire, but it is not targeting anything in particular. You are just hosing down an area with the hopes you hit something, more likely suppress it, or most likely waste a bunch of rounds.

Targeted covering fire is more specifically directed at something be it animal, vegetable or mineral - not just shooting wildly at a general area. I cringe everytime I approach a group of buildings, wishing that I could hit it directly, not just the hex or the hexes around it.

And Walrus, you are absolutely right - unjudicious use of area fire is a pain and unrealistic to a degree. Though many a trooper has just started shooting because the guy next to him started shooting, and so on and so on. But area fire does have its place - if your in dense cover or behind smoke, you can really ruin somebody's day or at least make him keep his head down.

And you are correct, sir, about me being in an unrealistic situation...a) I'm having the bail out motar crews, so obviously the bad guys have gotten deep into my territory and b) I'm fighting Jadpanther...which was unrealistic enough for me to begin with. Jad -> :boom2: <- Me