(08-22-2010, 11:42 AM)Walrus Wrote: Area fire direct to a building etc...they will argue that you can already do this.
A building icon in a hex is 'representative' of building structures...not the exact building. You can use z-fire to target a hex in LOS (they will say you are shooting at the whole hex rather than at an exact structure), and if you are stationary, and have decent exp and are within range, you can hit the targeted hex more times than not, causing lots of suppression. I am not sure why this is such a concern for players. If I want to target a building with z-fire that is in LOS...I can and do.
Walrus, I would never be the one to tell that you were incorrect :whis:
Wait for it...but, I don't think that I have had the same experience with z-fire (though certainly not as vast as yours or most everybody else). But I would like to back up my point with a little experimentation:
I took 2 Panther G's, obviously size 5, and placed them in the open on opposite sides of a large wooden building. I figure that even if it is a smaller building it would still be as big as or probably much larger. Inside the building I sat a German Spaeher scout unit. All these had their ranges set to 0 to avoid OP fire if possible.
250 meters away I sat two M4 Shermans and 1 MG squad (1 50 cal and 2 30 cal). 200 meters away I sat one regular infantry squad (M1's and BAR).
All units set in clear terrain and all clear terrain, elevation 10, between US units, bldg, and GE units. Visibility was 50. It don't get much more vanilla than that.
First up - The Shermans. I ranged them to the Panthers, 250 meters with 61% hit probability. I then z-fired twice at the hex containing the wood building and the scouts. With each z-fire came 1 75mm shot and 3 mg shots. The 75 scored a direct hit twice, the mg's 2 out of 6.
The second Sherman - no direct hits with the 75, 1 direct hit out of 6 with the mg's.
The misses ranged from 50 to 100 meters off, mostly to the left/front or right/front of the target hex.
The Infantry did far worse. They z-fired 4 times (8 total "shots") with only 1 direct hit with a BAR at 200 meters. The misses went all over the place, and interestingly many hit hexes behind the target hex that were out of LOS.
The MG squad figured similarly with 2 z-fires (6 total "shots") with only 1 direct hit by a 30 cal. The misses were predominately in front of the target hex, but one group hit the hex directly behind the house (perhaps the front and rear windows were open, and the rounds went right through).
The result was that the scouts were pinned with a morale of 14.
Now I don't want to do averages, mainly because I hate math, but also because I can't compare an M-1 and a 75mm. But the percentages for scoring a hit on a relatively close building were pretty low. About 50% for the big guns and way, way lower for small arms. I consider myself a pretty good marksman, far from the best though, but I could knock every window out of building at 200 yards with no problem (if you shoot back at me, I'm sure my accuracy would drop a bit - but I bet I still hit the building - I'd clean my pants later).
I went ahead and had the Shermans fire on the Panthers (remember it was a 61% hit probablity) and got a similar result with the 75's. One dead panther and one live one (was missed completely-then killed the Sherman).
So, yes I was able to target "a building" by virtue of being in LOS and it did succeed in a little suppression of the occupants, who remained unseen. But I still have to say that you can not accurately target a specific hex, regardless of what's on it, with z-fire. But, to actually "go after" a structure is very difficult and I believe adds to the over use of z-fire. If z-fire could be more accurately laid onto a particular hex in LOS, you'd get much less of that "spraying effect" which is, IMO, unrealistic in that case.
Now having said that, I do believe that firing into a hex out of LOS should result in that "spraying effect". As you have no real idea of what you are shooting at. The overhead God view contributes to the impression of "his just right there." But to the little pixel guys on the ground it's more of somebody yelling, "just throw some rounds a 100 yards that a way." Not exactly surgical and I think the game does accurately reflect that.
I still have to stick to my guns that z-fire does not target anything. It allows you to put rounds down in a general area, in the case of my experiment over about 7,500 square yards at 200 meters range. That's just not very good to successfully give cover to advancing troops by adequately suppressing unseen foes in the target hex.
I'm not going to suggest any change, as I recognize this for what it is...a very good u-go-i-go wargame. But a game none the less.
Much like the Christmas' of my youth, I often didn't get everything on my wish list, but come Christmas morning I was happy all the same.
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