A new skill learnt, should PzC go the same way?

Marquo · 09-04-2010, 07:30 AM,

I would be very careful about thinking this through for unintended consequences - many WW2 offensives kicked off at night - not during the day. I am not sure why this historical fact is not appreciated and what would happen if masses of attacking units started to disrupt. Hell, even Barbarossa kicked off at 3:30 am....

Marquo

**Mr Grumpy** · 09-04-2010, 08:03 AM,

(09-04-2010, 07:30 AM)Marquo Wrote: I would be very careful about thinking this through for unintended consequences - many WW2 offensives kicked off at night - not during the day. I am not sure why this historical fact is not appreciated and what would happen if masses of attacking units started to disrupt. Hell, even Barbarossa kicked off at 3:30 am....

Marquo

I think that fact has been taken into account because this is a % chance that should be very low for A & B quality troops. I cant believe that an offensive launched at night would be as mistake free as one launched in broad daylight? :chin:

The times i have read the words "the unit lost its way to the jump off point in the darkness" or "the unit arrived late after getting lost in the dark" in books about military operations.

Anyway i am sure this is being tested for suitability as we speak. :)

P.Ako · 09-04-2010, 08:04 AM,

(09-04-2010, 07:30 AM)Marquo Wrote: I would be very careful about thinking this through for unintended consequences - many WW2 offensives kicked off at night - not during the day. I am not sure why this historical fact is not appreciated and what would happen if masses of attacking units started to disrupt. Hell, even Barbarossa kicked off at 3:30 am....

Marquo

True, and also other battles like the bulge was fought mainly by night with poor visibility because in the ardennes region in december the daybreak is at 8:30 - 9:00am approximately and the dusk is at 15:30 - 16:00 approximately, so, being puritan, the vast majority of the turns would be nocturnal.

Glenn Saunders · 09-04-2010, 08:56 AM,

It isn't instant and certain disruption and it is quality based. Fact is there is a strong chance of things going wrong and units not being correctly positioned at night. If they are good troops, there is less chance. If they disrupt then they are still good troops and will recover.

The real fact here is players drive their units 24/7, more in shorter scns, then you really could drive them. All this rule is doing is making them consider the risk and provide consequences.

Glenn

Al · 09-04-2010, 09:27 AM,

From my own experience, even moves along roads at night are a dicey thing. Move off the road & the situation can get worse. If the lead vehicle/person makes a wrong turn then the whole column can get lost or "disrupted", if you will. I've done it in both the desert & heavily forested areas & the risks seemed almost equal.

Attacks typically would move to a jump off position up late evening or dusk, stay stationary during the night & then move off for the attack at dawn or pre-dawn. Prudent planning of the attack should therefore lessen the risk of becoming disrupted by moving at night. Of course, things don't always go as planned - that panzer unit you need shows up late, for instance, - which is why this series is such a good simulation of actual military operations. This night disruption rule will only make them better.

tquinn · 09-04-2010, 10:27 AM,

Any plans to incorporate some fatigue/night movement/disruption rules reflecting F14 learning to ACW/NAP titles. Any multi-day scenarios would benefit and become more realistic.

I have invented my own "Night" rules for ACW and NAP titles. However, I could never affect fatigue. I always felt that fatigue should accumulate with excessive movement/forced march/night movement. F14 accomplishes this.

Also, I've created rules to transmit orders from superior to subordinate commanders in pre-radio periods (ACW/NAP).

This greatly facilitates balancing play against A/I by causing movements/attacks to be more "uncertain", from the overall commander's POV.

Would be happy to share verbally with HPS/designers. Too much to write.

Agree that what differentiates HPS is commitment to continuous improvement and involvement with gamers. Keep it up.

Volcano Man · (This post was last modified: 09-04-2010, 10:30 AM by Volcano Man.)

Yes, this change that Glenn describes will be very good and welcome for PzC (and MC of course)!

Strela · 09-04-2010, 11:25 AM,

(09-04-2010, 07:30 AM)Marquo Wrote: I would be very careful about thinking this through for unintended consequences - many WW2 offensives kicked off at night - not during the day. I am not sure why this historical fact is not appreciated and what would happen if masses of attacking units started to disrupt. Hell, even Barbarossa kicked off at 3:30 am....

Marquo

Be very careful when quoting times in Russia, The German's based all their timing off Berlin time, NOT local time. This would mean a 1 - 3 hour variance. Also in high summer in Russia the days are very long and there are many accounts of very short nights. Agreed the forming up for Barbarossa was in the dark, but the sun was up not long after the offensive was launched....

Also finally, I am in full agreement with everyone here on the new rules that are coming - it's great to see this level of support from HPS.

Thanks Guys!