Supply wagon movement

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Some of the titles have SW movement on secondary roads as cross country and some do not. I get the slower movement if there are mud conditions, but otherwise no. It definitely makes it harder to consider moving away from the turnpikes to do anything. Will there ever be a patch to get all the titles on the same sheet of music?

[-72-]

Some of the titles have SW movement on secondary roads as cross country and some do not. I get the slower movement if there are mud conditions, but otherwise no. It definitely makes it harder to consider moving away from the turnpikes to do anything. Will there ever be a patch to get all the titles on the same sheet of music?

You're meaning in the Civil War series? (If not, what you mentioned is there as well). The movement costs are all in the pdt fields and would be set by the individual designer.

Now what individuals' philosophies are regarding that aspect, I'd be interested in reading as well -but I don't think that the mp costs are something that can be edited using the scenario editor program (not like say loss point scoring and the like). So I can understand how that makes things a little variable, especially in the context of a series.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

My fault............yes ACW series. Different designers shouldn't make a difference, game engine is same, so everything should be the same.

[-72-]

My fault............yes ACW series. Different designers shouldn't make a difference, game engine is same, so everything should be the same.

I kind of figured that was the one you meant, because I have played some scenarios (in that series) where the wagons go about 6 hexes per turn along the roads (which is more noticeable when the scenario involves a lot of marching from different units and the wagons can start getting "lapped" by oncoming units from divisions that arrive later).

Then you have something like at least one of the PDTs (maybe all of them for all I know) in 2nd Bull Run from Campaign Antietam where the wagons are rolling at nearly the speed of marching infantry (on the roads).

The way things work with Tiller's games; the turned based ones at any rate, is that the lead scenario designers get to set up the parameter data tables however they like. Assigning movement points are part of the parameter data table, means what you are seeing isn't an engine issue, it would have been set that way by the different games' scenario designers.

Short of expecting a person to delve through all of the different titles' Designer Notes, it would be impossible for users to even work out if this is an intended effect, or an oversight. I don't know that, I personally, would expect that of guys -which means that when I can grab some time I will have a look at all of those and pass it along if I find anything. (As well as post it).

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Surely it shouldn't take too much to get all the supply wagon movement on the same level. It's just way too slow for some of the titles. It makes one reluctant to do anything too far away from the turnpikes. Movement is still the same for artillery on the turnpike and secondary roads. I understand they were not as good condition as the turnpikes so I thought here was an idea.....

Supply Wagon movement.........

Turnpikes - 1
Secondary roads - 1.5
Trails - 2
Cross country - 2.5

[-72-]

Surely it shouldn't take too much to get all the supply wagon movement on the same level. It's just way too slow for some of the titles. It makes one reluctant to do anything too far away from the turnpikes. Movement is still the same for artillery on the turnpike and secondary roads. I understand they were not as good condition as the turnpikes so I thought here was an idea.....

Supply Wagon movement.........

Turnpikes - 1
Secondary roads - 1.5
Trails - 2
Cross country - 2.5

You know Josey, I am not disagreeing with you at all. You're arguing that as a technical problem, it shouldn't take much to address. And you are right about that. But it isn't a technical problem; what you have in the various titles, are a series of lead scenario designers (Drew Wagonhoffer, and Rich Walker come immediately to mind -but there were others too - I think Vicksburg's scenarios were designed by someone different again - but I could be wrong, and who actually did the scenarios in a given title will be in the user.pdf file); and those are the guys who set the movement points in a given title. The point I am trying to make, is that these guys, for whatever reason, didn't want it that way in the titles that they were designing the scenarios for.

I've played some scenarios where the wagons move along as fast as the infantry in column (when on roads) at the same time I think there are some where the wagons spend like 1.5 or maybe 2 m's per road hex. . . and it is a fair question the "what is different about this situation compared to that one?"

Now, however, I do understand where you are coming from, and (I haven't checked this to see if it is like this already) - I wonder if there is some series standard .pdt file included with each title? I'll have to check on that -but the thing that is going to mean, even so - is that it would have to be edited in to scenarios (or new ones created) in order to be read by the .scn file. As far as getting anything like that added to an official HPS patch (and part of the game scenarios -without editing), I don't know who handles that in cases where the original scenario designer may have moved on. I suspect in some cases it was Rich Walker in the last round of patches (although I might be wrong - I know he reworked some of the scenarios for some of the older titles -such as Franklin and I don't think he was the lead scenario designer on that one -so it might be a case where something like that gets delegated.) Although, again, I suppose the point is - it can become about convincing the guy handling the patches then, which is different from just having a generic series pdt available to use in scenario edits.

Mind you, I bet if you look too, there might be other differences similar to this one as well.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

I understand, I'm just putting stuff out there for the powers that be to hopefully consider looking into it. I do think this one is valid enough to take a look at, I'm just hoping it will convince them to also. Despite the different designers, we do have phones and email that when they have time, can be put to their collective thoughts, if they deem it worhty of a look, which I hope they do. I don't see any reason why the ACW series doesn't run like PzCs. In PzCs, everything is mostly the same as far as movement and stuff like that, no reason ACW series can't be the same way. These guys have the best thing going and if I can say 100 things and one helps to keep it going in the right direction, it's worth the time for me to mention it. Besides, sometimes it gets others to say something like you did and gives me something to read and hopefully one day understand. :)

[Compass Rose]

Some of the titles have SW movement on secondary roads as cross country and some do not. I get the slower movement if there are mud conditions, but otherwise no. It definitely makes it harder to consider moving away from the turnpikes to do anything. Will there ever be a patch to get all the titles on the same sheet of music?

I agree. The supply movement values in the ACW series can turn into a real "battle breaker" if your supplies arrive in the middle of a battle and they have a long way to go before they can reach where they are needed.

I'm currently playing a PBEM Vicksburg Campaign and my supply wagons are moving at a snail's pace. I too, feel that they should have a better movement value which is currently set at 10.

:stir: