Petition: John Tiller - Remove DRM Kharkov 43

[Mr Grumpy]

Why not ask these points to JTS direct? They should be able to answer them in detail for you. :)

[Glenn Saunders]

Picture this , if you have 12 JTS games install in your PC and then your pC die on you ...what happen then ??

The same thing that would happen if you had them loaded with CDs- you would reinstall them. This time you have an option of reinstalling from backed up media or re-=downloading the games again.

Give you another activation for all the 12 games ?

No - I think support would reset your existing license

How JTS going to determine whether you are genuine or not ..what if you are trying install to additional computer ?

First off, when you buy your game you get a reciept with a number - you keep this. Maybe print it out and put it on a backup location.

It would be really easy to look up your number.

So if my PC crash and I just request for additional key ? is it that easy ?

It is easier if you have your numbers
Harder if someone has to look up your number - but not impossible. If I didn't have a record myself I could list the games I own off myt head either. WIth this you just have to manage your own records differently.

Then I have to pray my PC will never crash again or can I request my 12 keys again ??

I don't know about you - I don't live and pray my PC doesn't crash - but if it does, well knock on wood, I haven't lost anything yet, I'd have work to do to restore it.

Is there a written agreement that guarantee this ?

or all my games will be gone forever ??

My God man - it is a $40 game your talking about here - not your retirement saving.

You have a reciept - you have a known developer who has been around a long time and has proven to support the game over the long haul. If you don't want to buy the game, then don't let me try and convince you otherwise.

What do you do now - pay someone money and HOPE they ship you the game? What if it gets lost. What happens if the CD is scratched, - all these things can happen - is you game(s) lost forever - if you are looking for reasons to not buy something ask anyone and they will give you reasons. But don't let the new deliver method scare you away.

Here is a link to the FAQ on the activation scheme.

http://johntillersoftware.com/catalog/shipping.php

Drop me a line by email if your really freeked out by this and I'll see what I can do to belay your fears here.

We've been making games for a long time and plan to keep making them. We woudl sure like the support of all the poeple who previously enjoyed our games. But we felt it was in our best interest to change who we do things - this was something brought on by HPS as they were going to go to Digital Download .

Anyway - drop me a line if you want to discuss the in's and out's of this.

Glenn
gcsaundersATgmail.com



[/quote]

[papajack]

$40 ? Is the JTS only going to release 1 game ? I have more than 30 HPS games...and can very sure that I will buy more than 1 JTS games in future ..

Just give you the receipt number and guarantee I can reset my license ?
I think you better consult with the e license system support again before making this statement , if is that easy then there is no need for all this debate

Just post this statement in the website and I am on my way to buy this game

I am really a big JT fan and have been buying all his PZC titles ...I am just disappointed and frustrated that I cannot do that any more ...I dont earn much and every cent do count for me ...

I really want to but I had some bad experience with some other company that use this DRM that I vow not to buy any game that use this system ..why this has t happen to my favorite developer

Enough said , I iwsh all the best to JT and his co ..you have really give me so much enjoyment through out the years

[-72-]

PC Crashes... or you could open up the case, remove the HD, get an external case ... go look up on the Googles how to retrieve emails (as it is all over Googles - I had to do it two or three times this year alone -- blame a heat warped laptop mobo). . .

then do what it says- and bingo you got your emails. Oh sure you have to do something complex and worse -remember what email client you were using (possibly more than one if you were really bored ans day were using Thunderbird and something from Microsoft). . .

Is it foolproof? Well who knows- it is like saying will the bungie cord hold before diving off a bridge? On the other hand, you do actually have a group of guys who actually have a reputation for providing support -so go ahead and ramp up the hypotheticals by all means; -like what happens if an asteroid hits the Earth and a giant tsunami takes out all the electrical grid because Bruce Willis failed to stop it because he was an actor instead of a oil rig spaceman guy.... it is actually on the same exact level of hypothetical situation -or maybe I figured I wanted to get that one out there first.

If it matters I spent money on a GamersGate product a couple of months back and got about no support. I figure it is on my end and probably my ISP's - but good luck getting a reasonable answer out of them.

Buy it or don't -that is anyone's choice .... I got the entire Adobe CS5 web design suite in a similar situation ( it uses DRM -and has for a number of years) - it is a hell of a lot more money invested - and I haven't read nearly the amount of crying on their boards as here - I mean jeez the products there are in some cases 100x more than what you are talking about with this one title. I mean that figure literally.

[Bison]

I'm rather surprised at how easy is it to be dismissive of someone else's $40. Given the economic environment, the individual's unknown income source and an equally unknown how much disposable income they have; it seems a rather rude response. $40 x however many games the individual may purchase down the road could be quite a tidy sum invested. Couple that with the fact JTS has implemented a DRM system in order to try and stem the loss of money through piracy seems to be rather onesided in viewing the monetary transaction.

[Glenn Saunders]

$40 ? Is the JTS only going to release 1 game ? I have more than 30 HPS games...and can very sure that I will buy more than 1 JTS games in future ..

The HPS John Tiller games have no DRM and so we're only talking about one game right now

Just give you the receipt number and guarantee I can reset my license ?

It is the game Serial Number you give JohnTillerSupport - they match that to you name which would be in teh database because you bought it there.

I think you better consult with the e license system support again before making this statement , if is that easy then there is no need for all this debate

Just post this statement in the website and I am on my way to buy this game

It says in the FAQ

Q: But what if my old computer crashes first and I can't uninstall the game?

A: In that case, you would need to request a manual deactivation from support. Once they do that for you, you can then install the game on the new computer.

I am really a big JT fan and have been buying all his PZC titles ...I am just disappointed and frustrated that I cannot do that any more ...I dont earn much and every cent do count for me ...

I understand you concern and I am sorry bit as of today there is no way to purshase the game or new games on CD.

I really want to but I had some bad experience with some other company that use this DRM that I vow not to buy any game that use this system ..why this has t happen to my favorite developer

I can't help you with other developers and I'll leave you with the last word if I can't do anything to change your mind.

Enough said , I iwsh all the best to JT and his co ..you have really give me so much enjoyment through out the years

---

I'm rather surprised at how easy is it to be dismissive of someone else's $40. Given the economic environment, the individual's unknown income source and an equally unknown how much disposable income they have; it seems a rather rude response. $40 x however many games the individual may purchase down the road could be quite a tidy sum invested. Couple that with the fact JTS has implemented a DRM system in order to try and stem the loss of money through piracy seems to be rather onesided in viewing the monetary transaction.

Oh come on $40 for X number of hours of gaming enjoyment is not expensive entertainment for any budget. I can't think of anything off hand that is cheaper.

So please don't make me sound like I am being rude. That is not my intention at all.

PCs will crash we know that - and Support will have to assist people who have purchased the game reactivate them. It is the same John Tiller that has been around for years making games and the crowd here knows that he stands behind is games. How other companies have treated customers is a factor we have no control over.

If you are not going to get this game because it has to activate over the internet after you download and install it - that is your choice and I respect that.

Glenn

[Volcano Man]

I'm rather surprised at how easy is it to be dismissive of someone else's $40. Given the economic environment, the individual's unknown income source and an equally unknown how much disposable income they have; it seems a rather rude response. $40 x however many games the individual may purchase down the road could be quite a tidy sum invested. Couple that with the fact JTS has implemented a DRM system in order to try and stem the loss of money through piracy seems to be rather onesided in viewing the monetary transaction.

Yes, $40 is a lot, especially if someone is buying a new game every week (who would be doing that?). However $40 every... six months? Is that a lot? If that were the case then games across the gaming industry would be $10 each according to the law of supply and demand. $40 could be rent and food money to someone. It could mean the difference between life and death. However, $40 can also get you only 14 packs of cigarettes to go up in smoke, two tanks worth of gas for your car, two meals at a nice restaurant, or two Blu-Ray movies that you might watch twice in your lifetime.

Someone allocates their own money accordingly, so if said person is spending tightly invested money on games, then that person probably shouldn't be gaming in the first place.

I suppose somehow what I just posted will be contrived and twisted into something terrible...

[Bison]

No your points are all logical. The observation on my part is the $40 is not trivial as it is the sum of hundreds of similar $40 purchases that funds your development and hopefully puts a little into your pocket as well. Also consider (This is not a request for a price drop or discount) that a full set of any of the series could easily become a several hundred dollar investment for both the gamer and the developers. The gamer is investing in current and future fun. The developer gets the money to continue developing games and as payment for work done. I just don't think marginalizing the investment whether in terms of the minimum $40 dollars for one game or the potential for $100's of dollars for many games is good business. Perhaps I'm just old and believe every customer regardless of how much the spend is important.

[Dog Soldier]

No one here thinks you have to spend on something you do not want right now. This is not a pressure sale for a toxic investment or car dealership.

Sit back an relax. Six months from now you might think this is no big thing and want the game anyway. Or not.

I am sure the product will still be at the JTS site and for the same price. Just sit back an watch this forum and ladder. See if a lot of people begin posting game results AARs and Tournaments for Kharkov 43.
See if you are in the majority and the product is a flop over concerns with DD and DRM. Or not.

Not a bad position to be in.

Why do consumers feel so much pressure to buy something that is only nice to have and not a necessity?

Dog Soldier

[Wolfgang]

I haven't purchased a gaming title on CD or DVD in about 3 years now.
I love not having to use a CD. To me, a CD is a tether i don't want. CD's wear out, fade, get lost. Readers breakdown, make noise, etc.
Most of the titles I have have DRM. And i haven't had a single issue in all that time with a single title.
I plan on purchasing an inexpensive memory chip to burn the downloads to for backup. But even if I dont - most of the titles I can easily re-download and re-activate.
I worked for a company that created DRM 10 yrs ago when it first emerged and I myself implemented DRM into software titles as a technician. Some DRM schemes did not work well for various reasons...
But by and large the DRM today works well from my experience (there is 1 type of DRM out there that is a bit cumbersome but thats about the worst of it). I would think its in the interest of DRM providers and developers to be responsive to the customer experience while balancing the needs for security. By and large thats pretty much what i see.

Another note: aside from digital downloads, even some 'store bought' software requires that initial internet connection to activate or even play.

So i actually have come to prefer Digital Downloads and by default DRM, which to date hasn't gotten in the way of me being a big fan of digital downloads.

I'm actually really excited that JT's games are gonna start to be available as digital downloads. I hope the entire HPS catalog goes digital.
Before SQB Modern War the last game I had that I think was JT's was Rising Sun by Talonsoft.

If HPS had made all the SQB titles available via digital download i probably would have tried the series a lot sooner instead of finally getting into it so late.

Here's how i came to purchase modern war:
I was looking for squad level grognard game - researching online i came to decide that squad battles was my answer. I was dismayed to find out though that the HPS site didn't offer it as a download... which after 3 years of purchasing only digital copies of games, i found kinda old-school and suprising (no offense HPS - i love your games!). But i was really bummed out because i wasn't going to pay for a box, shipping, nor was i in a mood to wait and plus the storefront looked kinda dated... i felt unsure if my order would get processed by someone on the other side. Maybe the site was out of date and no one had actually take it down?? (no offense)

So i actually gave up on HPS at that point and started looking for grognard game companies online that had digital dl's available.

Thats when i ran across JT's new site later that nite... and a game in the SQB series i didn't know about.

To quote a popular commerical "I jump in it"

It wasn't Vietnam, but it was a chance at $40 to check out a game system i was pretty sure i was gonna like a lot. Finally it was my chance so i got it!

And thats how I ended up finally getting into squad battles after all these years.

My point being - if JT didn't have that site there, I would still not be playing HPS type titles... I simply would not have gone through the process to order a mailed copy.
The site made taking a risk easier - the price made it easier, the digital download made it easier, and the impulse friendly online shopping environment made it easy to purchase. Thats life in the modern digital age i guess. I didn't used to be that way. But now i don't want my games on CD, i want em on a memory stick and my hard drive.