Planning Maps for Dien Bien Phu now available

-72- · 01-11-2011, 08:06 PM,

Modern War got me interested in assembling maps for the series. I owed Mike Cox some work (been talking about it for the better part of a year), was also in the process of reworking the pages...

Therefore - there is a new DBP page featuring all of main maps from Dien Bien Phu, plus the same extras that Rich has on the Modern War page for JT.

http://www.hist-sdc.com/spotlights/sb_dbp.html

I think I am going to be going through the series from the more modern subject to the older ones (I think SAW is probably going to be next up then the Vietnam titles, and finally Korea before I get in to WWII) - on the plus side, the maps are generally a little smaller (although there are more of them to be sure)... anyways.. more on the way.

Outlaw Josey Wales · 01-12-2011, 03:07 AM,

Good looking maps. Is it possible we could see Squad Battles campaigns in one scenario in the future? Before anybody starts off with it being too many turns etc, doesn't appear that much difference between one long scenario vs a bunch of amller ones strung together without much control over decisions and deployments in between? I think it would be great to be able to play entire battles or campaigns on one large map. Stuff like Dien Bien Phu, ACW campaigns etc. They would also make great team games. People will play them.

TheBigRedOne · 01-12-2011, 04:01 AM,

(01-12-2011, 03:07 AM)Outlaw Josey Wales Wrote: Good looking maps. Is it possible we could see Squad Battles campaigns in one scenario in the future? Before anybody starts off with it being too many turns etc, doesn't appear that much difference between one long scenario vs a bunch of amller ones strung together without much control over decisions and deployments in between? I think it would be great to be able to play entire battles or campaigns on one large map. Stuff like Dien Bien Phu, ACW campaigns etc. They would also make great team games. People will play them.

The too many turns thing doesn't seem like an issue on the surface, but designing a massive scenario would be quite an undertaking, especially when it comes to coordinating things like reinforcements, withdrawals and the like over a huge number of turns. Forget about having any AI scripting.

For example, a two-day battle would be somewhere close to 5-600 turns (12 turns equals one hour of time). I can't imagine coordinating all the design elements that go into a regular scenario into a really massive one. Playtesting a behemoth like that would also be quite labor intensive and probably take more time than the team has to push out 40-70 scenarios per commercial release.

I think buyers of the series would prefer a large number of well-crafted scenarios than a couple of massive ones mixed in with a much smaller number of 'regular' ones, especially since there are probably more people who buy the games and play solo than there are folks who PBEM.

I just don't think a scenario on massive scale covering a couple of days of combat is all that feasible for a commercial release. The largest scenario I've ever seen is a behemoth VN scenario which simulates 1 full day of combat. It has been played once here on the Blitz.

jmlima · 01-12-2011, 06:39 AM,

(01-12-2011, 04:01 AM)TheBigRedOne Wrote: ...
For example, a two-day battle would be somewhere close to 5-600 turns (12 turns equals one hour of time). I can't imagine coordinating all the design elements that go into a regular scenario into a really massive one. Playtesting a behemoth like that would also be quite labor intensive and probably take more time than the team has to push out 40-70 scenarios per commercial release. ...

Biggest problem would be that conditions do not change during a scenario. That is, no night-day, rain-no rain, fog-no fog

TheBigRedOne · 01-12-2011, 07:38 AM,

Never even thought of that, Joao.

**Compass Rose** · 01-12-2011, 09:30 AM,

(01-11-2011, 08:06 PM)trauth116 Wrote: Therefore - there is a new DBP page featuring all of main maps from Dien Bien Phu, plus the same extras that Rich has on the Modern War page for JT.

http://www.hist-sdc.com/spotlights/sb_dbp.html

Thanks for the head's up and for your time for working on it. It sure is really neat to see the "big view"!

Outlaw Josey Wales · 01-13-2011, 02:01 AM,

Would still be nice to see those large maps utilized for some large battles, different options on reinforcements, maybe giving away victory points for more reinforcements or something, maybe hypothetical meeting engagements with the forces or some of the forces or ones you chooswe giving away the points or something. Otherwise, what's the point of nice, large planning maps for small scenarios? All I see is if a person can make a scenario on a smaller portion of the map and be able to copy that part of the map.

Also, I went to try and have a look at that large Vietnam scenario, but didn't see where it could be downloaded.

TheBigRedOne · (This post was last modified: 01-13-2011, 05:47 AM by TheBigRedOne.)

Click on the VN Scenario link in my post.

The SB series is more about the historical angle of the battles in the conflicts it covers. Hypothetical scenarios, espeically ones that are completely non-historically based, aren't usually covered.

That's not to say that an interested party could try their hand at making one, but the whole point system goes back to the post I believe you made about making SB more like other game systems, and that's just not going to happen.

-72- · 01-13-2011, 06:02 AM,

JW:

That's a fair question. The game documentation for a lot of the SB series have a pdf file called 'map overview' or something similar. That file, from what I can gather from the context, was provided for scenario designers. However, that file's images use the jump map. Since I had the time, equipment, and facility to host it I went with providing some larger images with what I think would be the same end in mind.

Maybe it would be better to call them them something like Master Maps.

I don't know what the development teams are considering, but from a technical standpoint all it would take is a couple of engine changes and larger scenarios would seem to be possible. (Which isn't meant to suggest that any along those lines might ever be done).

Anyways- I guess they would be serviceable to custom scenario designers, or even potential map modders. The point, partly though is that SDC is a fan site, not an official site.

Outlaw Josey Wales · (This post was last modified: 01-14-2011, 07:59 AM by Outlaw Josey Wales.)

Don't get me wrong, I think the maps look great. Every one could have it's own large battle if it was made. I wish ACW would have large enough maps for the whole campaign to be played at once rather than jumping from one scnenario to the next. Somebody had made one for Battleground Chancellorsville and three others but I cannot remember where to find them again.

I don't think the engine would have to be changed in order for the larger scenarios to be made and played.

Also not wanting SBs to be like other systems other than being able to have random maps and scenarios. Don't want it to play like other systems, just have the possibility of generating battles. People would then have the choice of having larger battles or not. I think it would be good to help keep people interested in playing rather than getting burn out playing the same scenarios many times over. I think that is a part of the reason people are still playing Steel Panthers after all these years.....multiple choice of countries, year, terrain, points to spend etc.

After thinking about it, probably would not be a good stand alone title for sale, because with that, would be no reason to purchase any other titles. But I still think it would be good addition to each title specific for that one title.