Turn Saves Counter: Blessing or Curse?

[Herr Straße Laufer]

In my experience, some players cheat without saves, simply making their moves, noting significant positions, and then they simply delete the file and re-save the file from their opponent's email & start the turn over. This type of cheat will not show up except in their very consistent "perfect" moves, unless there is a way to catch this I don't know about.

The only cure I know is to simply end the game, give your opponent his major victory, and don't game with him any more, and report one's suspicions to the moderator.

Rule 14. Cheating should be used with caution. Depending on the skill of the player and the style of the opponent there are many misunderstandings regarding a players ability or imagined effort to "cheat" to win.
Most times a simple e-mail exchange of explanations are the solution to ill feelings of cheating. :chin:

Though, I have done the same as Rado when faced with perfect moves. "Thank you for the game. Man, you've had some lucky shots. How'd you figure out where I set up my ambushes. I am not in your class. Report your victory. Sorry, I am not up for another match."; are my usual goodbye phrases when I suspect a "re-player". :cantswim:

There are plenty of solid players in the club.
A frustrating .01% are few and far between. :pullhair:

The save count is not even a good indicator of cheating. Especially in larger scenarios, or households that are busy. :smoke:

[Hawk Kriegsman]

Hello All,

I voted to get rid of it. It serves no purpose other than to create angst where none is needed.

Personally save as much as you want. I don't care one whit. Although I do find it amusing to see 20+ saves on a 15 turn size 5 scenario. :whis:

As Ed (and others) said with regard to perfect player turns:

"Thanks much, report your major win, I will have to take a rain check on a rematch."

Then I recomend they challange Tiger88, Oberst or Morgan J to a match! :kill:
:bow:

Thanx!

Hawk

[K K Rossokolski]

Get rid of it ...as soon as possible. Its very existence indicates the presumption that players are cheats. And it proves bugger-all. All it does is show up compulsive savers. I just lost a day's worth of OOB making because.......most unusually for me...I didn't save the stuff.
I found it quite sad seeing a blitzer advertise a while back for a no-save game.

[Armored Inferno]

I found it sad to be playing late in a scene that required at most 10 minutes to make a move when the opponent made 4 saves on a turn where I lost 3 platoons of IS2's. (Don't worry, not a recent opponent on the ladder).

[Remko van den Berg]

Just keep it, the reasons for implementing it still exist. Although it was never an issue for me

[Herr Straße Laufer]

"Thanks much, report your major win, I will have to take a rain check on a rematch."

Hey, wait a minute! :jaw:
That's the last message I got from you when we stopped playing each other! :grin2:

I said, I said, that's a joke son! :scare:



HSL

[John Given]

I'm still conflicted on this issue, so I haven't cast a vote.

My feelings are pretty much summed up here; (thanks Rado)

I think it is good, but certainly it does not stop cheating. In my experience, some players cheat without saves, simply making their moves, noting significant positions, and then they simply delete the file and re-save the file from their opponent's email & start the turn over. This type of cheat will not show up except in their very consistent "perfect" moves

And here; (thanks Larry)

if, and only if, the game is tweaked to save every move/shot as it is made, similar to the way the campaign games are saved. The counter serves some purpose, but if the true intent is to stop perfect turns, have them saved continually. A person could still cheat, but on large scenarios it would be prohibitive to have to play the entire turn again to change one move or shot near the end. Of course, the mythic cheater could still explore and avoid ambushes and such and then restart with a fresh turn, but he can still do that now under the counter too. And in the small scenarios this wouldn't help much, you could play the entire turn again easily.

The bottom line is that the save counter won't prevent cheating. And though I think it's great that IMO all those I've gamed with are an honest bunch, anti-cheating measures in some other forms of play (like online shooters, such as Battlefield 2, which uses Punkbuster for anti cheat/hack protection) run alongside the game or are embedded in the software (you get 'out of sync' errors if someone in the game is cheating, a la Age of Empires and other Microsoft games). These measures are not only very common, but also very necessary - I can't even imagine a lack of anti cheating / anti-hacking measures in many of the other games I play, because it would essentially make those games unplayable due to the sheer volume of cheaters.

So basically, I'm for the counter, but I'm also aware it does absolutely nothing to stop a determined cheater, and IMO that is a fact that MUST be addressed if we're to have any real closure on the issue.

[Crossroads]

Get rid of it ...as soon as possible. Its very existence indicates the presumption that players are cheats. And it proves bugger-all. All it does is show up compulsive savers. I just lost a day's worth of OOB making because.......most unusually for me...I didn't save the stuff.
I found it quite sad seeing a blitzer advertise a while back for a no-save game.

I'm with KKR in this one. Get rid.

For the life of me I can't think of a method that would prevent cheating in a turn based game like this. All it can do is to make playing more cumbersome, possibly, and have a cloud of suspicion on the friend you are playing with, propably.

I do not want to be notified my opponent saved 5 times in a SM2 game. I am sure he had reasons.

And as noted earlier, if you do not like how someone plays, don't play him. Simple as that.

If you find someone you like to play with, agree on the house rules if necessary. Heck, I just had a most constructive HT discussion with an old member of the board! :eek1:

[Scud]

I won't cast a vote either, since it's not an issue for me. I will say, however, if Matrix thought maybe it should go away, I'd ask them to give it a low priority versus all the other great ideas for v1.05 before wasting programming time removing it.

Dave

[Von Earlmann]

I found it quite sad seeing a blitzer advertise a while back for a no-save game.

Yeah!