Sniper teams worthless?

[raz_atoth]

Perhaps i'm thinking to much in CM1 terms,but those little buggers tended to be quite effective.Mainly because they were pretty much invisible.You never knew from where that shot that just killed the commander of you precious King Tiger came from.
On the other hand,in cmbn the sniper teams are composed of two members.Nothing wrong about that,just that when you issue a fire order both of them start to fire.Not only the guy carrying the sniper rifle but also his companion.Thus rapidly giving away their position. Is there a more stealthier approach,i'm missing?How do you guys use them efficiently?

[Wengart]

Right now I think there is a bug where SMGs fire at much longer range than they should (100+ meters).

Anyway to address your problem with the target order. I recommend if possible giving the team cover arc comprising of just the target, or try using target light, which may just have the sniper fire.

[raz_atoth]

The issue is not with the cover arcs.In a particular situation i recall,i gave the sniper team a fire order to button up a tank.I was expecting only the sniper rifle to be fired with the sniper team invisible to the targeted tank.Instead both members of the sniper team fired,giving away their position.10 seconds later a HE shell killed them both.I'll have to try with Target Light,though.That might do the trick.

[Wengart]

The reason I brought up the cover arc is if the target is secluded you could put a cover arc on the target. So the target is the only thing within the cover arc. In a sense fudging a target order, but without the second man firing.

[raz_atoth]

The reason I brought up the cover arc is if the target is secluded you could put a cover arc on the target. So the target is the only thing within the cover arc. In a sense fudging a target order, but without the second man firing.

Is there any difference between a distinct fire order and the fire triggered by an enemy entering the covered arc?Other than the obvious fact that the unit will engage only targets found inside the covered arc,in the second case? I was under the impression there isn't.Assuming in both circumstances all the men in the squad have los/lof to the target,all of them will fire,right?

[Wengart]

No, a target order is more or less the squad leader telling everyone to open up with everything they have. If the target is within the weapons maximum effective range (not the soldier's effective range) it will be firing.

For example, a K98 has a maximum effective range of about 500M, however you will rarely see a soldier firing at that range, unless they are well trained (crack or elite) or have a very good reason to be doing so. But if given a target command at say 450M regular troops, who usually open up around 300M will begin firing.

When you use a target command with the Sniper Team you, as the team leader, are telling them to open up with everyone thing they've got. While if you were to use a cover arc the soldiers would make a decision based on their personal effective firing range. In other words, unless the target was within 100M the smg should not be firing.

[raz_atoth]

You're right about the 'Target' command.I just had a closer look at the manual:
"This is the standard fire command, instructing a unit to use all of its available
weapons to fire at the designated target."

I also played a little in the editor and saved a test scenario:panzers vs snipers ;)
What i found out is on all counts the sniper team engages the enemy targets with all the weapons at hand,not just the sniper rifle.With both Target and Target Light commands it will fire with both rifles;with a covered arc it will fire with both rifles.With no command/arc once it will spot the enemy armor it starts firing with both rifles.
Another thing i noticed is the sniper team is quite easily spotted.On 'Warrior' skill i had one occurrence where an enemy Panther spotted and engaged one of my sniper teams from about 190m.The said sniper team was hiding in trees and didn't previously fired.
And third,when they fired,they didn't even managed to button the enemy tank commander.Quite puzzling.

I'm curious if-unlike me-someone did managed to use them in an efficient manner.Because as it seems right now,the stealth factor is negligible and the accuracy leaves a lot to be desired.

[enigma6584]

In CMSF, I use sniper teams in conjunction with "cover arcs." The "cover arcs" are for the effective range of the sniper weapon and thus only the sniper took shots. I can't answer your question regarding CMBN sniper teams because I haven't used them yet but I would have assumed the same. The TacAI handled who fired when using cover arcs. It may be a bug in CMBN but I will have to check it out.

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One other thing before I forget. When one wanted to control even more what sniper teams did in CMSF, the player would split the team down into two parts, the sniper and the support team. That way he was assured of only the sniper shooting. Also, cover or concealment plays a big part on whether they can be seen or not. Make sure that sniper is in trees with plenty of ground cover. Just a thought.

[Wengart]

I did some tests where a platoon of infantry quicked at a house holding a sniper team. The sniper team only engaged with the smg at 100 meters and usually netted around 10 kills each.

[enigma6584]

Try it at a greater distance where you would think only the sniper himself would shoot. See if the other members of the team hold fire.