secure PBEM games

Arkan · (This post was last modified: 06-01-2011, 08:39 AM by Arkan.)

Before starting playing HPS games i was playing Steel Panther games. There was a very good thing in this game - when a player was reloading his turn the other player had a message saying the first player was cheating.

There is nothing like that in HPS so a player can replay his turn as many times he want and it's a bit problematic i think. I know we are a community of wargame lovers and that most of the players are playing fair but i think this rule should be usefull to avoid any misunderstanding between players.

I'm sure each one of you has asked himself questions like "how the hell his artillery disrupted my A morale low fatique unit" or "why he didn't go in my trap in the woods" or any other question. Of couse, most of the time it's just luck but... who knows

It's also problematic for a player who want to play fair but who made a terrible mistake and have an easy opportunity to fix it, just replaying his turn. The morale dilema, which i had myself lot of times, is very hard... have i to lose the game or have i to cheat a still have a chance to win.

I dont know if it's easy to to programers to made some kind of security, but if it's not to hard i think they should think about it

PS : This message is based on my own experience and i dont want any of my current or past opponents to feel suspected of cheating. Big Grin

larsonney · 06-01-2011, 09:54 AM,

So that's how you beat me in Tunisia...on the last turn...pulled out a minor instead of a draw...just kidding Big Grin

I guess my thought is to hell with 'em...if they need to win a make-believe wargame to get a higher winning % & feel better about themselves...let 'em!

I think 99% (okay, maybe 95%;)) of the guys on the site are honest, so I don't think it factors into the long run that much.

That said, if they could easily fix it, they should...as long as it doesn't raise my game cost :smoke:

**Ricky B** · 06-01-2011, 09:56 AM,

My understanding is nothing more will be added - there is the encryption, and no file save. If you are using no file save, then reloading forces the entire turn to be replayed, so I consider it a good method in reasonably sized games to prevent anything untoward - but even that is something I don't normally worry about myself. Even the SP method can be beat so although it is doable to provide a count of openings of a turn, it won't stop those that want to play unfairly.

Rick

larsonney · 06-01-2011, 09:58 AM,

(06-01-2011, 09:56 AM)Ricky B Wrote: My understanding is nothing more will be added - there is the encryption, and no file save. If you are using no file save, then reloading forces the entire turn to be replayed, so I consider it a good method in reasonably sized games to prevent anything untoward - but even that is something I don't normally worry about myself. Even the SP method can be beat so although it is doable to provide a count of openings of a turn, it won't stop those that want to play unfairly.

Rick

Yeah, great point.

I only think it comes into play in a very small scenario with limited forces...

Tide1 · 06-01-2011, 10:36 AM,

Steel Panthers and the Campaign Series has the message system. Last week I got an email from an opponent I've played against for six years saying he lost track of time and had to take his son to baseball so I would be seeing the message when the turn got back to me.
He showed class and respect. Would I of thought he had cheated? NO. He can kick the crap outta me without it. Did I need to know he had to take his son to baseball? NO. Did I want him to waste time composing and sending me an email without a turn attached? NO.
To have it in a game series like Panzer Campaigns would be....well lets just say a waste of time. cheers

Volcano Man · 06-01-2011, 11:11 AM,

Well, as with anything, the game is only as good as the player(s) you are up against. I knew a friend who I played chess with (seems like I said this recently), and when he would get into a hopeless situation he would knock the pieces on the board over. Naturally, that was not very fun so I stopped playing chess against him.

No matter what John does, there will be ways to cheat. We just have to play the right players. The good thing about the Blitz is that once you play enough people, you will establish your own "regulars" that you trust to play against. I am not saying that you should try playing against new people, just that the whole experience is dependent on who you play.

**Mr Grumpy** · 06-01-2011, 04:57 PM,

(06-01-2011, 11:11 AM)Volcano Man Wrote: No matter what John does, there will be ways to cheat. We just have to play the right players. The good thing about the Blitz is that once you play enough people, you will establish your own "regulars" that you trust to play against. I am not saying that you should try playing against new people, just that the whole experience is dependent on who you play.

Exactly how i would have replied. ;)

Glenn Saunders · 06-02-2011, 01:09 PM,

> No matter what John does, there will be ways to cheat.

...and that is what John says everytime I raise the subject with him.

Philippe · 06-05-2011, 03:07 AM,

Perhaps there is a middle ground.

A setting that 'automatically' caused the game to save upon closing might go a long way towards raising comfort levels. This would help prevent casual cheating by eliminating the possibility of re-rolling and would be a boon for those people who don't like to commit several hours to finishing large, complicated turns in big scenarios in one session. It would also be nice to have a few more planning tools (like something that shows how far a unit could move in several turns if nothing gets in it's way), but that's another story.

I agree with John in the sense that programming tricks can't stop determined cheating. The only thing that works for that is to be sure you like interacting with the people you're playing with. But having safeguards that are too flimsy (or too stringent) can cause unintended problems. I like the maxed out security setting, but can only use it on very small scenarios.

Glenn Saunders · 06-05-2011, 11:42 AM,

(06-05-2011, 03:07 AM)Philippe Wrote: Perhaps there is a middle ground.

There is already Middle Ground - NO SAVES.
John did this for us even though he really didn't think it was the answer. WHen he did he was pretty clear, anything he does on this is a waste of time - if people want to cheat, then he can't stay ahead of that and he doesn't want to waste any additional time trying.

This is file encrpytions and passwards and no file save. Pick whatever combination works best for you.

Glenn